Kia sach kia jhoot

[bella]

ULma Barevi Shah Ismail ko kafir kun nahe kahtay, mainy jitna be boeband barelvi ikhtalaf study kia ha barelvi ko masail main deoband say ikhtalaf nahe sirf ibarat ko boora kaha gia ha, jab kay mainy fiqa main study kia ha jabtak insam kud kuffar ka ilan na karday wo kafir nahe i mean agar aik ibarat ka matlab 99 kufir ki taraf jata aur 1 ka matlab acha ha then ham acha matlab he lain gay. jo ibarat Ulma barlvi doeband par lagatain hain es bohat c ibarat doeband barelvi ulma par lagatay hain tou kia ham kam ilam waly kia samjain k doono ghalat hain. barelvi ulma apni ibarat ka matlab bohat acha nikaltay hain aur doeband b.

 

Some one tell me hum jahain to kidar jain. kon galat ha ko sahi kuch samah nahe ata.

 

aik taraf Barelvi ulma kahtain hain k doband nay ahmed raza khan ki tarif kia aur dossari taraf Peer mahr ali, karam ali aur bohat say alam hain jo doeband kay akabar

ko wali kamal kahtain hain. kisi nay amkany kazab k mutalak Saeen Tawakal say rahy talab ki to saeen sab nay tou yahan tak hadia K RASHID AHMED GONGOHE KA KALAM ARSH KAY SAYE TALAY CHALTA HA. Ahmed Raza sab nay RAshid ahmed Gungohe aur Qasim ali nanootavi ko wali lekha ha.

 

so tell me ye sab kia ha. ham kun apna waqat waist karahay hain. jahan dekho masail par koe bahas nahe only ibarat jis par kufir ka fatawa b lagana mushkal ha.

 

tell me why Ahmed raza did not call shah ismail kafir even write in all books that, ismail ko kafir na kaho, this is right path aur esmain he salamati ha. what is this

[Shan E Raza]

janab bella g aap apne aitrazat k jawabat leney k liye new thread banao is thread mein sirf noor o bashar par baat ho rahi hai.

 

or plz jaldi kariye ga mujhe jawab bhi dena hai

Edited 5 ستمبر 2009 by Qadri Attari

[Abdur Rehman]

Bella Sahab

aapki post noor o bashar walay topic say yaha move kar de gaee hai

 

har topic ko pahlay tassli say parh lain aur phir jo related baat likhni ho post karain

 

 

koi bhe post karnay say pahlay itminan kar lia karain kay aap muta'llika moazoa par he baat kar rahay hain kay nahee is say ham sab ko aasani hai.

 

aap nay kafi bato ka zikar kia hai

 

ismail dahalvi ki takfir na karnay kay hawalay say post maujod hai jis ka link neachay hai usay parh lain baki cheazo kay muta'llik jo post maujood hain us ka bhe link day du ga inshaAllah

 

http://www.islamimehfil.info/index.php?showtopic=5250&st=0

[RadiatingAli]

ULma Barevi Shah Ismail ko kafir kun nahe kahtay, mainy jitna be boeband barelvi ikhtalaf study kia ha barelvi ko masail main deoband say ikhtalaf nahe sirf ibarat ko boora kaha gia ha, jab kay mainy fiqa main study kia ha jabtak insam kud kuffar ka ilan na karday wo kafir nahe i mean agar aik ibarat ka matlab 99 kufir ki taraf jata aur 1 ka matlab acha ha then ham acha matlab he lain gay. jo ibarat Ulma barlvi doeband par lagatain hain es bohat c ibarat doeband barelvi ulma par lagatay hain tou kia ham kam ilam waly kia samjain k doono ghalat hain. barelvi ulma apni ibarat ka matlab bohat acha nikaltay hain aur doeband b.

 

Acha toh ek gustakhana ibrat kay 99 buray matlab hoon aur ek acha ho toh aap acha lenh gay ... acha aap kee meh tasalli ker deta hoon ... "Bella sahib ya Sahiba aap kay walid baray hee haram kee ulaad hen, aur aap kee walida bee." Aap batahen yeh aap kay walid ko gali deeh heh ya tareef kee heh aap 99 ko choren joh ek acha nikalta heh us ko leh lenh aur ainda aap ko agar meh esay ilfaaz say bulahoon toh aap neh gali gali ka shor nahin kerna theek heh nah ??

[Sybarite]

ULmaBarevi Shah Ismail ko kafir kun nahe kahtay, mainy jitna be boebandbarelvi ikhtalaf study kia ha barelvi ko masail main deoband sayikhtalaf nahe sirf ibarat ko boora kaha gia ha, jab kay mainy fiqa mainstudy kia ha jabtak insam kud kuffar ka ilan na karday wo kafir nahe imean agar aik ibarat ka matlab 99 kufir ki taraf jata aur 1 ka matlabacha ha then ham acha matlab he lain gay. jo ibarat Ulma barlvi doebandpar lagatain hain es bohat c ibarat doeband barelvi ulma par lagatayhain tou kia ham kam ilam waly kia samjain k doono ghalat hain. barelviulma apni ibarat ka matlab bohat acha nikaltay hain aur doeband b.

 

Some one tell me hum jahain to kidar jain. kon galat ha ko sahi kuch samah nahe ata.

 

aiktaraf Barelvi ulma kahtain hain k doband nay ahmed raza khan ki tarifkia aur dossari taraf Peer mahr ali, karam ali aur bohat say alam hainjo doeband kay akabar

ko wali kamal kahtain hain. kisi nay amkanykazab k mutalak Saeen Tawakal say rahy talab ki to saeen sab nay touyahan tak hadia K RASHID AHMED GONGOHE KA KALAM ARSH KAY SAYE TALAY CHALTA HA. Ahmed Raza sab nay RAshid ahmed Gungohe aur Qasim ali nanootavi ko wali lekha ha.

 

sotell me ye sab kia ha. ham kun apna waqat waist karahay hain. jahandekho masail par koe bahas nahe only ibarat jis par kufir ka fatawa blagana mushkal ha.

 

tell me why Ahmed raza did not call shahismail kafir even write in all books that, ismail ko kafir na kaho,this is right path aur esmain he salamati ha. what is this

 

Aap ki iss gich'pich khichri'numa post ko pehlay mein apnay tour number'waar likhta hun, kahi kuch ghalat ho tu bata dijiye ga.

 

 

1. Ulema-e-Ahle'Sunnat Barelwi Ismail Dehalvi ko Kafir nahi kethay, aur Ala Hazrat Imam Ahmed Raza Khan ne Ismail Dehalvi ko kafir kehnay se mana kiya. Iss per aap ne sawal qaim kiya hai "What is this".

 

2.Aap ne jitnay bhi Barelwi/Deobandi ikhtilafaat ko dekha tu waha masailmein ikhtilaaf nahi balkay sirf ibaraato ko bura kaha gaya hai.

 

3. Aik ibarat ke agar 99 maani ghalat ho ya kufr ki janib jatay hun aur 1 sahi ho tu humein sahi wala qoul lein gay.

 

4.Ulema-e-Ahle'Sunnat Barelwi Deobandiyo ki jaisi ibaratoo ko paish karke aiteraaz kartay hain, Ulema-e-Deoband bhi aisay hi ibaratein paishkar ke Ulema-e-Ahle'Sunnat Barelwi per aiteraaz kartay hain. Deobandibhi apni ibaraato ki taweel paish kartay hain aur Barelwi hazrat bhi.Tu hum kam'ilm walay kya dono ko ghalat samjhein?

 

5. Aik tarafBarelwi hazrat kehtay hain ke Deobandiyo ne bhi Ala Hazrat ki tareefki, doosri taraf Peer Mehr Ali Shah, Pir Karam Ali Shah aur bohut sedeegar Ulema ne Deobandi Akabireen ko Wali-e-Kamil kaha.

 

6.Imkan-e-Kazb ke baray mein Saee Tawakkal se raye talab ki gai tu SaeeSahib ne yaha tak keh dya ke Rashid Ahmed ka qalam arsh ke saye talaychalta hai.

 

7. Ala Hazrat ne Rashid Gangohi aur Qasim Nanotwi ko WALI likha.

 

 

Ye hai aap ki poori post ka khulasa, agar kuch reh gaya ho tu bata dijiye ga.

 

Ab aiye jawabaat ki taraf;

 

1. AlaHazrat ne IsmailDehalvi ki kutb se be’shumaar kufriya aqaid-o-ibaraatko naql kar ke unhay kufr qaraar diya lekin Ismail Dehalvi toubah kaqoul mashoor honay ki bina per takfir na farmai. Lekin Rashid Gangohika qoul hai ke toubah nahi ki thi, so agar Rashid Gangohi ke qoul kolya jaye to takfir lazim aur taubah ke qoul kolya jaye tu maamla doosrahai. Beher’haal woh ibaratein jo Ismail Dehalvi ne likhi wohbe’shak-o-shubah Kufr hain.

 

2. Ahle’Sunnah Barelwi aur Deobandihazrat mein sirf ibaratoka jhagra nahi balkay sab se bara jhagraTazeem-e-Mustafa hai, deegar masail ka anbaar tu alehda. Aisi saikroocheezein hain jinhay Deobandi hazrat baghair kisi shar’aee-o-aqlidaleel ke bidat/shirk qaraar de dete hain. Aur soonay per suhaga ye kewaqtan fa’waqtan yehi tamaam bid’aat aur shirkiyaa cheezein apnay aapper halaal bhi kar lete hain. Ahle’Sunnah Halwa khaye tu haram, yekawwa khaye tu halal. Ahle’Sunnah niyaaz karein tu haraam, Gangohikahein tu Hindu kiholi/diwali ki kheer halal. Ye sab tu zimni masailhai, asal ikhtilafaat aqaid ki bunyad per hain. Woh aur baat hai keDeobandi hazrat awaam-o-khawaas mein yehi dhoka dete nazar atay hain keBarelwi / Deobandi naz’aa sirfniyaz-o-fatiha waghaira aur aisay hichootay masail per mabni hai, kyu ke agar ikhtilafaat ki asal wajehawaam ke samnay rakh di gai tu shayad Deobandiyatt kawajood hi khatamho jaye ga.

 

3. Bilkul baja farmaya aap ne, aur issi qaiday peramalkartay huway Ala Hazrat nay Ismail Dehalvi ki takfir nahi farmai,halan’ke Ismail Dehalvi ka kufr 70 se zyada hawalo se sabit hai lekinchoo’kay toubah kaqoul hai iss liye takfir nahi farmai. WaisayDeobandiyoo ki na’paid aqal per hairat hoti hai. Aik taraf tu AlaHazrat per ilzaam lagatay hain ke Ala Hazrat ne andha’dhund sab kokafir qaraar de dya aur phir khud hi Ismail Dehalvi ke mamlay ko paishkar ke Ala Hazrat ki ihtiyaat ka saboot bhi dete hain. Be’shak Allahbatil ke munh se bhi Haq kehalwa deta hai.

 

4. Youn tu aap saridunya ko dekh lijiye. Aap ko Christians bhi Muslims ki taraf keecharuchaltay hain nazar aye gay aur hawalay bhi Quran se dein gay, Qadiyanibhi Muslims ke khilaaf boltay nazar aye gay aur hawalay Quran-o-Hadithke dein gay gharz ye tu saray alam mein nazar aye ga aap ko.Lekin agaraap waqai haq ke mutalaashi hai tu ye bhi jaan jaye gay ke Christiansaur Qadiyani Quran-o-Hadith ke hawalajaat paish kartay waqt kaisikhayanaat kartay hain.

 

Bilkul isi tarah Yahood-o-Nasara kipaida’karda ye Deobandi jamaat bhi hum Ahle’Sunnat ki taraf aiteraazratkartay hain tu hawalajaat mein aisi hi khayanat kartay hain. Alfaazmein tehreef tu chooti baat in farebiyo ne tu poori poori kitaab garhdein jinka siray se koi wajood hi nahi. Gharz aisi bohut si misaleinhain jaha Deobandi hazrat ka makr-o-faraib saaf wazeh hai. Ab aaj kalke naye phudaktay Deobandi Rab Nawaz Hanfi ko le lijiye. Mere hisaab seya tu Rab Nawaz Hanfi ne kabhi ikhtilaafi masail per koi kitaab parhihi nahi, ya phir ye shakhs intihai darjay ka zaleel aur jhoota insaanhai.

 

Kuch saal pehlay issi Rab Nawaz Hanfi ne Paltalk per aikaudio session record karwaya tha jis mein jee bhar Ala Hazrat kekhilaaf ghalazat ugli thi. Iss audio mein jaha Rab Nawaz Manfi ne kaeejhoot bolay wahi aik jhoota hawala ye bhi dya ke;

 

(21:02)Ke aikdinasar ki namaz parhai to asar ki namaz kebaad apnay hujray mei dekhaaik mureed ne ke Hazrat namaz parh rahay hain. Tounho ne kaha hazratasar aap ne abhi parhi hai, asar ke baad ko nafil nahi hotiye kaun sinamaz hai. To Ala Hazrat ne jawab dya ke aakhiri rakat meinmujhayshehwat ka jo ghalba howa, mera azaarband toot gaya. Kyu ki 3saal ki umer meinMashallah jab shehwat ka pata tha. Lihaza kehnay lagayke uss shehwat keghalbay se khushoo mein farq aya to asar ki namaz meindobara duhra raha hon.(21:41)

 

Ye hurf ba’hurf wohi alfaaz hainjo Rab Nawaz Manfi ne uss audio session mein kahaye, mein ne timestampbhi de di hai. Ab aaiye aap ko asal hawala parhwaoo;

 

“Qaida-e-akheermein baad tashudd, saans ki harkat say meray angarkhay ka band tootgaya tha.Choon`kay namaz tashudd per khatam ho jati hai, iss waja semein ne aap se nahi kaha aur ghar jaa kar band durust kara kar apninamaz phir parh li.”

 

Asal hawala tu aik taraf, aik choota sasawal hai, agar aapke bus mein ho tu iss Rab Nawaz Manfi se iss kajawab zaroor laa dijiye ga;

 

Mera aik simple sa sawal hai RabNawaz Manfi se ke tum Deobandi azaar`band kaha bandhtay ho? Nahi matlabwaqai, tum logo ki shalwar to shayad seenay per bandhi hoti hai perazarband kaha hota ye waqai samajh nahi aa raha. Mard ko shehwat kaghulba ho tu iss ke jism mein tagaiyurr ata hai lekin ye samajh nahiaata ke aisi kaun si shehwat ho sakti hai ke jis se azaar`bandtootjaye! Ya to phir shayad deobandiyo se apna uzoo-e-khaas sambhalanahi jaata hai iss liye ussay azaar`band se baandh kar rakhtay hain.Aur to koi mumkina soorat nazar nahi aati ke jis se shehwat ke marayazaar`band toot jaye. Iss ke jawab ka mujhay waqai intizaar rahay ga keaakhir ye deo ke bandar azaar`band baandhtay kaha hain ke jaha bandhnayse shehwat ke waqt uss ke tootna mumkin ho.

 

Umeed hai ke Deoband ki dajl-o-faraib ki ye jhalki aap keliye kaafi hogi.

 

5. PirSyed Mehr Ali Shah Sahib woh hain jinho ne Gangohi ke shagird MolviHussain Ali Deobandi ko munaziray mein shikast de kar bhaga dya tha,tafseel Pir Sahab ke sawaneh Mehr-e-Munir mein parh lijiye ga. PirSahib ne sari zindagi Deobandiyo ke batil aqaid ka khull kar raddfarmaya. Aur Pir Karam Ali Shah Sahib ki janib se takfir ka tu khudDeobandiyo ko bhi iqraar hai. Hawala aap ko issi forum per mil jayega,na milay tu bata dijiye ga.

 

6. Issi Imkaan-e-Kazb ke baray meinGanoghi ki ibaraatein Ulema-e-Harmain ke samnay paish ki gai tu unho neKufr ka fatwa diya. Saee Tawakkul Shah Anbalwi ke iss qoul ka hawalazaroor paish kijiye ga. Agar aap hawalay mein “Anwaar-ul-Ashiqeen” kahawala dena chahtay tu ye kitaab Saee sahib ki hai hi nahi. Doosra yeke Saee Tawakull Shah Sahib ka intiqaal 1315 hijri mein huwa, tab taktu Hassam’ul’Harmain bhi shaya na huwi thi. Saee Tawakkull Shah Sahibke intiqaal ke 10 saal baad Hassam-ul-Harmain per Ulema-e-Harmayn kitasdeeqat raqm huwi. Matlab ye ke uss se pehlay tu Ulema-e-Deoband kikufriya ibarato ka tu awaam ko sahi se maloom hi nahi tha, aisi sooratmein agar kisi nay aisa tareefi qoul keh bhi dya tu woh hujjat nahi.

 

7.Aap ne likha ke Ala Hazrat ne Gangohi aur Nanotwi ko Wali likha hai tubaraye’mehrbaani iss ka hawala bhi de dijiye ab, takay iss ka bhi jawabdiya jaa sakay. Mein tu aaj pehli baar ye sun raha hun.

 

Umeed hai ke jawab tassali'bakhsh hongay. Agar koi baat reh gai ho tu bata dijiye ga, uss ka bhi jawa mil jaye ga.