Masla E Noor O Bashar

[Dard]

@Raid:

 

//"Man Arafa Nafso Ho Faqad Arafa Rabbo Ho"

Second equation becomes two types:

1. Become Lord.

2. Become the Signs of Lord.

 

 

1st is gonna be shirk, but not second.

My Nafs = Represent My Lord.//

 

That's what your answer!!!!!

 

Here we go:

 

Allah is Noor = Muhammad's Noor Represnts Allah's Noor

 

I hope you have proved yourself that Muhammad is Noor.

Edited 20 جولائی 2010 by Dard

[Ra'id Ortan]

Dard>>>>

Simply i expected this same answer from you. You believed Zaat-e-Muhammad S.A.W is Noor.

"Lam yalid walum yooladu"

"na es (ALLAH) se koi paida howa aur na hi wo (ALLAH) kisi se paida howa"

 

"Muhammad S.A.W = Noor

Now its make two sense.

1. Zaat-e-Muhammad S.A.W = Noor

2. Muhammad S.A.W is Noor in Dark

 

Pahla point to shirk hay, aur es par pahle main apni wazahat kr chuka hon.

Now sencond point is not shirk.

Muhammad S.A.W arab may paida howe, aur us waqt arab dark (jahilyat k dor may) tha. aur phr Muhammad S.A.W pr Quran nazil ki gai.

Aur Muhammad S.A.W ne eski taleem ko phelaya, so es waja kr Muhammad S.A.W ki sifat (tareef) pr Noor kaha jata hay.

aur main esi point pr believe krta hon.

[Ra'id Ortan]

Atleejani>>>

 

Yeah ye surah ahzab ki ayat 46 hay, aur es ayat ki tafseel bhi kafia ati hay app logo k sunne se.

aap ko mere jawab Dard sahab ko jo jawab dea gaya hay, usi may mile ga.

 

Ra'id Ortan

[Ra'id Ortan]

Qadri Attari>>>>

 

mere khayal se maine urdu may bhi apni batoo ko post kr dea hay atleejani sahab ki request may.

Maslakk se muraad aap bate dijye mjhe.

 

Ra'id Ortan

[Alteejani]

Dard>>>>

Simply i expected this same answer from you. You believed Zaat-e-Muhammad S.A.W is Noor.

"Lam yalid walum yooladu"

"na es (ALLAH) se koi paida howa aur na hi wo (ALLAH) kisi se paida howa"

 

"Muhammad S.A.W = Noor

Now its make two sense.

1. Zaat-e-Muhammad S.A.W = Noor

2. Muhammad S.A.W is Noor in Dark

 

Pahla point to shirk hay, aur es par pahle main apni wazahat kr chuka hon.

Now sencond point is not shirk.

Muhammad S.A.W arab may paida howe, aur us waqt arab dark (jahilyat k dor may) tha. aur phr Muhammad S.A.W pr Quran nazil ki gai.

Aur Muhammad S.A.W ne eski taleem ko phelaya, so es waja kr Muhammad S.A.W ki sifat (tareef) pr Noor kaha jata hay.

aur main esi point pr believe krta hon.

 

 

MR,ORTEN AP KA NOOR KA FALSAFA KUCH SAMJ SE BAHAR HE,AGR HAZOOR NOOR HE GUMRAHI ME TO ALLAH KE NOOR KO APNE KYA SAMAJ LYA HE KYA ALLAH KA NOOR APKE NAZDEEQ KISI ASI CHEEZ KO KAHNA HE KE JO HOLA YA DEKHAI DENE WALI ROSHNI YA IS SE MELTI JOLTI SHE,OR FARESHTO KO AP KIS CATEGORY ME LAEN GAE WOH BI TO NOORI MAKHLOK HE AP APNI SOCH MAZEED WAZEH KAREN

[Dard]

@Raid:

 

Noor Sifat e Elahi Hai, Na Kah Zaat e Elahi.

 

Allah The Greatest Name

 

Sifati Name are as follows:

 

Ar-Rahman1The All-Compassionate

Ar-Rahim2The All-Merciful

Al-Malik3The Absolute Ruler

Al-Quddus4The Pure One

As-Salam5The Source of Peace

Al-Mu'min6The Inspirer of Faith

Al-Muhaymin7The Guardian

Al-'Aziz8The Victorious

Al-Jabbar9The Compeller

Al-Mutakabbir10The Greatest

Al-Khaliq11The Creator

Al-Bari'12The Maker of Order

Al-Musawwir13The Shaper of Beauty

Al-Ghaffar14The Forgiving

Al-Qahhar15The Subduer

Al-Wahhab16The Giver of All

Ar-Razzaq17The Sustainer

Al-Fattah18The Opener

Al-'Alim19The Knower of All

Al-Qabid20The Constrictor

Al-Basit21The Reliever

Al-Khafid22The Abaser

Ar-Rafi'23The Exalter

Al-Mu'izz24The Bestower of Honors

Al-Mudhill25The Humiliator

As-Sami26The Hearer of All

Al-Basir27The Seer of All

Al-Hakam28The Judge

Al-'Adl29The Just

Al-Latif30The Subtle One

Al-Khabir31The All-Aware

Al-Halim32The Forebearing

Al-'Azim33The Magnificent

Al-Ghafur34The Forgiver and Hider of Faults

Ash-Shakur35The Rewarder of Thankfulness

Al-'Ali36The Highest

Al-Kabir37The Greatest

Al-Hafiz38The Preserver

Al-Muqit39The Nourisher

Al-Hasib40The Accounter

Al-Jalil41The Mighty

Al-Karim42The Generous

Ar-Raqib43The Watchful One

Al-Mujib44The Responder to Prayer

Al-Wasi'45The All-Comprehending

Al-Hakim46The Perfectly Wise

Al-Wadud47The Loving One

Al-Majíd48The Majestic One

Al-Ba'ith49The Resurrector

Ash-Shahid50The Witness

Al-h Haqq51The Truth

Al-Wakil52The Trustee

Al-Qawi53The Possessor of All Strength

Al-Matin54The Forceful One

Al-Wáli55The Governor

Al-Hamid56The Praised One

Al-Muhsi57The Appraiser

Al-Mubdi58The Originator

Al-Mu'id59The Restorer

Al-Muhyi60The Giver of Life

Al-Mumit61The Taker of Life

Al-Hayy62The Ever Living One

Al-Qayyum63The Self-Existing One

Al-Wajid64The Finder

Al-Májid65The Glorious

Al-Wahid66The Only One

Al-Ahad67The One

As-Samad68The Satisfier of All Needs

Al-Qadir69The All Powerful

Al-Muqtadir70The Creator of All Power

Al-Muqaddim71The Expediter

Al-Mu'akhkhir72The Delayer

Al-Awwal73The First

Al-Akhir74The Last

Az-Zahir75The Manifest One

Al-Batin76The Hidden One

Al-Walí77The Protecting Friend

Al-Muta'ali78The Supreme One

Al-Barr79The Doer of Good

At-Tawwib80The Guide to Repentance

Al-Muntaqim81The Avenger

Al-Afu82The Forgiver

Ar-Ra'uf83The Clement

Malik al-Mulk84The Owner of All

Dhul-Jalali Wal-Ikram85The Lord of Majesty and Bounty

Al-Muqsit86The Equitable One

Al-Jami87The Gatherer

Al-Ghani88The Rich One

Al-Mughni89The Enricher

Al-Mani'90The Preventer of Harm

Ad-Darr91The Creator of The Harmful

An-Nafi92The Creator of Good

An-Nur93The Light

Al-Hadi94The Guide

Al-Badi95The Originator

Al-Baqi96The Everlasting One

Al-Warith97The Inheritor of All

Ar-Rashid98The Righteous Teacher

As-Sabur99The Patient One

 

 

So your logic "Lam Yalid Wa Lam Youlid" can't be implemented here, I hope you have understood.

Edited 22 جولائی 2010 by Dard

[Ra'id Ortan]

Dard>>>

 

 

 

"ALLAH ek hay"

Ahad ka matlub ek hota hay.

Ahad ALLAH ki nishani hay k ALLAH ek hay.

Aur sath hi ye ALLAH ki sifat bhi hay.

ALLAH rahman hay aur raheem hay.

Be'shak koi bhi ALLAH ki tarha Rehman aur raheem nahi ho skta.

to ye ALLAH ki Nishani bhi hay aur Sifat bhi.

ALLAH hu Akbar.

ALLAH sabse Bara hay.

To ye bhi ALLAH ki Nishani bhi hay aur Sifat bhi.

ALLAH noor hay.

ye ALLAH ki zaat hay, kui k Quran se pahle Christian aur Jews (yahodi) k nazdeek ALLAH hamari tarha hi ka tha, jiski waja kr Christian ne Isa A.S ko ALLAH ka beta bana dea.

Aur Jews ne ye Kahani banali k Hazart Daood A.S ki ALLAH se Hata pai ho gai. Naozobillah.

Es waja kr ALLAH ne Quran my ye baat wazih kr di k ALLAH ki zaat noor hay, ta k phr koi ALLAH k shape ko beyan na kr sake.

To ye bhi ALLAH ki Nishani bhi hay aur Sifat bhi.

 

Sifat ka matlub tareef hay, aur noor ALLAH ki zaat hay aur tareef bhi.

 

Ra'id Ortan

[Alteejani]

Dard>>>

 

 

 

"ALLAH ek hay"

Ahad ka matlub ek hota hay.

Ahad ALLAH ki nishani hay k ALLAH ek hay.

Aur sath hi ye ALLAH ki sifat bhi hay.

ALLAH rahman hay aur raheem hay.

Be'shak koi bhi ALLAH ki tarha Rehman aur raheem nahi ho skta.

to ye ALLAH ki Nishani bhi hay aur Sifat bhi.

ALLAH hu Akbar.

ALLAH sabse Bara hay.

To ye bhi ALLAH ki Nishani bhi hay aur Sifat bhi.

ALLAH noor hay.

ye ALLAH ki zaat hay, kui k Quran se pahle Christian aur Jews (yahodi) k nazdeek ALLAH hamari tarha hi ka tha, jiski waja kr Christian ne Isa A.S ko ALLAH ka beta bana dea.

Aur Jews ne ye Kahani banali k Hazart Daood A.S ki ALLAH se Hata pai ho gai. Naozobillah.

Es waja kr ALLAH ne Quran my ye baat wazih kr di k ALLAH ki zaat noor hay, ta k phr koi ALLAH k shape ko beyan na kr sake.

To ye bhi ALLAH ki Nishani bhi hay aur Sifat bhi.

 

Sifat ka matlub tareef hay, aur noor ALLAH ki zaat hay aur tareef bhi.

 

Ra'id Ortan

 

 

RAID SAB AP NOOR KO KYA SAMAJ RAHE HEN KYA NOOR SE AP KOI MATERIALISTIC CHEEZ LENA CHATE HEN OR NOOR TO MAALAIKA BHI HEN ONKO PHIR KIS KHANE ME AP DALE GAE MUJE APKI NOOR KI THEORY SAMAJ NAHI A RAHI HE KHODYA MAZEED WADHA HAT KAREN TAKE BAT KO SAHI DIRECTION ME HAM LE JA SAKE UMEED HE IS MARTABA AP APNI THEORY KO KHOL KAR BAYAN KARE GAE

Edited 23 جولائی 2010 by Alteejani

[Ra'id Ortan]

Atleejani>>>>

meri information jahan tak hay, wo ye k ALLAH ne kahin ye nahi farmaya k Farishte Noor se paida kye gae aur wo bhi ALLAH k noor se.

agr ap k pas ye ayat ho to please mhje bata dijye ta k meri ilm may bhi izafa ho sake, aur main apko apke sawal ka jawab de sako, jis k ap muntazir farma hain.

 

jahan tak nabi k noor ka taluq hay to apne ab tak aesa jawab nahi dea jis se meri baat galat sabit ho jae.

kui k agr nabi ka noor ALLAH k noor se paida kea gaya hay, to ye Hadith sarih galat hay.

kui k ALLAH ne farma dea hay k:

"na es (ALLAH) se koi paida howa aur na wo (ALLAH) kisi se paida howa"

(Surah Ikhlas 112:3)

 

so be'shak Muhammad S.A.W ALLAH k noor se paida nahi kye gae, aur Be'shak Muhammad S.A.W ki zaat noor nahi hay, aur Be'shak Muhammad S.A.W hamari tarha k Insan hi they.

[Ra'id Ortan]

Maazrat k sath mera reply ap logo zara dair se mile ga, asal may yahan net ki trobleshooting hay.

[Ra'id Ortan]

mere khayal se apne meri pahli baat ko sahi se read nahi kea hay, kui k maine apni pahli baat hi may ye baat wazih kr di hay k ALLAH ki zaat Noor hay, jaise hamari zaat insan hay.

aur ALLAH ne apne apko noor kyo kaha ye bhi bata dea hay.

 

once again:

ALLAH noor hay.

ye ALLAH ki zaat hay, kui k Quran se pahle Christian aur Jews (yahodi) k nazdeek ALLAH hamari tarha hi ka tha, jiski waja kr Christian ne Isa A.S ko ALLAH ka beta bana dea.

Aur Jews ne ye Kahani banali k Hazart Daood A.S ki ALLAH se Hata pai ho gai. Naozobillah.

Es waja kr ALLAH ne Quran my ye baat wazih kr di k ALLAH ki zaat noor hay, ta k phr koi ALLAH k shape ko beyan na kr sake.

Edited 23 جولائی 2010 by Ra'id Ortan

[Alteejani]

mere khayal se apne meri pahli baat ko sahi se read nahi kea hay, kui k maine apni pahli baat hi may ye baat wazih kr di hay k ALLAH ki zaat Noor hay, jaise hamari zaat insan hay.

aur ALLAH ne apne apko noor kyo kaha ye bhi bata dea hay.

 

once again:

ALLAH noor hay.

ye ALLAH ki zaat hay, kui k Quran se pahle Christian aur Jews (yahodi) k nazdeek ALLAH hamari tarha hi ka tha, jiski waja kr Christian ne Isa A.S ko ALLAH ka beta bana dea.

Aur Jews ne ye Kahani banali k Hazart Daood A.S ki ALLAH se Hata pai ho gai. Naozobillah.

Es waja kr ALLAH ne Quran my ye baat wazih kr di k ALLAH ki zaat noor hay, ta k phr koi ALLAH k shape ko beyan na kr sake.

 

 

JANAB WALA ,APKA FALSAFA NOOR WAHI HE JISKO AP BATORE DALEEL MUKHALFAT ME BAYAN KAR RAHE HEN,AGR ESSAION NE OR YAHOODION KHODA KI ZAAT KO INSANO SE SHABHI DI THI TO AP ABHI ALLAH KI ZAAT KO EK MAKHLOQ KE SHEBIH ME DAL RAHE HEN,AWAL TO AP NOOR KA SAHI TARJUMA SAMAJ LE LAFZ NOOR ARABI ME US ROSHNI KO KAHTE HEN JO DOSRI SHE KE BADALUT PEDA HO NA KE KHOD SE ROSHAN HO MASLAN CHAND SE JO ROSHNI ATI HE OSKO ARABI ZAABAN ME NOOR KAHTE HEN OR SURAJ SE POTHNE WALI ROSHNI KO ZAO ضوء KAHTE HEN AB YE BAT TASLEEM SHODA HE KE QURAN KE ARABI ZEEBAN KI FASAHAT WA BALAGHAT KO CHALLENGE NAHI KYA JASAKTA HE,TO JO LAGHVI MAFHOOM MA QIBAL ISLAM ARBO ME RAEJ THA OSI FAHIM KO LE KAR QURAN KI BALAGHAT NAZIL HOVI WARNA ARAB YE KAHTE KE YE HAMARI ZEEBAN NAHI TO JO CHEEZ HAMARI ZEEBAN ME NAHI TO HAM OSKE SAMAJ NE ME QASIR HE TO TAWHEED OR RISALAT KO KIS TARA QABOOL KARE JAB KOI HAMARI ZEEBAN ME BAT HI NAHI KAR RAHA HE,KHER AB ATE HEN ASAL MAOZO KI TARAF ALLAH KI ZAAT KO APNE NOOR KAHA,OR MERE IS SAWAL KO AP HAZAM KAR GAE KE MALAIKA BHI NOORI MAKHLOQ HE,TO IS TARA SE TO ALLAH KI ZAAT TAQSEEM HO KE RAH GAI (NAUZU BILLAH)KYO KE JAB MALAIKA BHI NOORI ZAAT OR ALLAH BHI NOORI ZAAT TO PHIR APKE FALSAFE ME OR YAHOOD OR NASRA KE FALSAFON ME KYA FARQ RAH JATA HE,IS LYE GUZARESH AP KHOD APNE SOCH PER EK NAZR DALEN KE AP KYA KAH RAHE HEN,ALLAH NOOR HE ZAMEEN OR ASMANO KA ,ISKA KYA MATLAB HON GA AGR NOOR EAN ZAAT HE PHIR YAHAN ZAMEEN OR ASMAN ME KYO TAQSEEM HO GAI ALLAH KI ZAAT ?UMEED HE AP MERI BATAON PER GHOR KAREN GAE OR APNA MUQAF MAZEED WADHAT KE SAT PESH KARE GAE,WA AKHRE DAWANA ALHAMDOLLILAHI RAB E ALAMEEN.

Edited 23 جولائی 2010 by Alteejani

[Dard]

@Raid:

 

I have quoted 99 sifati name of Allah, among them was Al Noor, no one has ever claimed that Allah's Zaat is Noor.

 

So you are the first one who claims it.

 

Suppose we take your argument then:

 

Noor means light, that means where there is Noor, there can't be darkness.

 

Vice Versa where there is darkness, there is no Noor.

 

So according to your logic Allah can't be there where there is darkness.

 

Do you agree to it?

[Ra'id Ortan]

Atleejani>>>>

Pahli chz wo ye k ALLAH noor hay. aur ye noor kaisa hay, na ap jante ho aur na hi main aur na hi koi aur.

Matlub undefinable, jise ap define nahi kr skte, jo k maine pahle hi wazahat kr dea hay.

2nd chz, ALLAH k noor hone k bawajood, ap unki shape define krne may lage ho.

Yeah Noor ka matlub roshni hi hay.

"ALLAH noor hay asmano ka aur zamino ka"

so ap k statement k mutabiq:

"NOOR ARABI ME US ROSHNI KO KAHTE HEN JO DOSRI SHE KE BADALUT PEDA HO NA KE KHOD SE ROSHAN HO "

Naozobillah ALLAH ka noor kis se roshan hay?

kia ap bata skte hain?

Absolutely nahi.

 

Aur apne Malika pr koi ayat nahi mention kri k wo noor se paida hwe hain.

please ap koi ayat bata dijye ta k mere ilm may bhi izafa ho.

 

Dard>>>>

Dard sahab bhi noor ko shakal dene may lage howe hain.

Dard sahab ki baat se yahi andaza kea ja skta hay k wo ALLAH ko dekhna chahte hain.

jaisa k enho ne farmaya:

"Noor means light, that means where there is Noor, there can't be darkness.

Vice Versa where there is darkness, there is no Noor."

 

So i hope apko Mosa A.S. ka wo waqiya yaad hoga jis me Mosa A.S ney ALLAH ko dekhne ki iltija ki thi.

So us waqt bhi ALLAH mojood hi tha, but Mosa A.S dekh nahi pa rahe they, aur Jub ALLAH ek Pahar (Mountain) may namodar howa to wo Mountain jul kr khak ho gaya, aur apko ye bhi pata hoga k

 

ALLAH kis sorat may Naomdar howa tha.

So ALLAH be'shak noor hay, but agar ap uski roshni ko chand aur soraj ki roshni samjh rahe ho k

 

wo apko nazar aegi to ye Bilkul bewaqofana baat hay.

maine pahle hi ye baat wazahat kr di hay k ALLAH noor hay, aur ye undefineable hay, to please ap es noor ko define kr k apna eeman khatre mat dalye.

Edited 24 جولائی 2010 by Ra'id Ortan

[Qadri Sultani]

Mr Wahhabi Sb..

 

Yeh Masla Itni Detail Say Pehlay Bhe Discuss Ho Chuka Hay.Hatt Dharmi ka ilaj Kisi K Pas Nahi.Pehaly Aap Humara Aqeedah samjhain Phir Bat Karain.

[Alteejani]

Mr Wahhabi Sb..

 

Yeh Masla Itni Detail Say Pehlay Bhe Discuss Ho Chuka Hay.Hatt Dharmi ka ilaj Kisi K Pas Nahi.Pehaly Aap Humara Aqeedah samjhain Phir Bat Karain.

 

 

CHISHTI BHAI YE WAHABION KA BHI BAB HE JESE KAHTE HEN QURANION YE SIRF OR SIRF QURAN HI KO APNE AQLE KUL SE SAMJ NA CHATE HEN OR HADEES SIRF WOH JO IN KE HESAB SE BETH TI HO YE SAB MERI DARKHUWAST PER FACE BOOK SE YAHAN PER AE HEN MENE IS LYE IN SE DAR KHUWAST KI THI TAKE INKO THEEKH TARA ZEEL KYA JAE KYO KE INKI CHAMRI BOHAT MOTI HE ASANI SE YE APNI BAKWAS NAHI BAND KAR GAE,AB DEKHE YE AHESTA AHESTA RANG BADAL RAHA HE PEHLAY IS NE ZAAT PER HI KAMND BANDHI AB KAHTA HE KE NOOR HE PER YE NAHI PATA WOH KESA NOOR HE,AB HENA JAHELOON WALI BAT JAB PATA NAHI TO MOU KIO KOHLA PEHLAY MALOM TO KARO KE NOOR SE KYA MURAD,OR AB YE DHONDE MALAIKA KO ISE YE NAHI MALOOM KE MALAIKA KO NOORI MAKHLOOK KAHO KE NAHI,KIO KE AGR YE KAHE GA NOORI TO PHIR ISKE HESAB SE ALLAH KI ZAAT BHI NOOR HE TO DONO YAQSAN HOWE JO KE SAREEHEN KUFER HE OR AGR SIRF ALLAH KO HI NOOR MAN LOON TO MALAIKA KAHAN GAE OR AGR MALAIKA SE NIKAR KARE GAE TO WOH BHI KUFER HE AB YE SAB PHAS TO GAE HE PER CHUKE MOTI CHAMRI HE ASANI SE NAHI MANE GAE IS LYE INKO AB MAZEED PHANS NE DO TAKE WOH HAL HO KE NA RAHE GHAR KA NA GHAT KA

[Dard]

@Raid:

 

Firstly let me clear you about our belief:

 

We believe Noor is Sifat E Elahi but you believe Noor is Zaat E Elahi.

 

Please define what do you understand by Sifat and Zaat?

 

Zaat say Sifat Ka Zahoor Hota Hai Ya Sifat Say Sifat Ka?

 

We believe Allah's Noor is not derived from any one that you have allegated us.

 

Your defination for Noor is "NOOR ARABI ME US ROSHNI KO KAHTE HEN JO DOSRI SHE KE BADALUT PEDA HO NA KE KHOD SE ROSHAN HO"

 

Please bring forward any reference to it.

 

You belive Noor is "Undefinable" but I hope you know Quran has explained it with an example.

 

......................

 

Now I am quoting some of Ayah in Quran:

 

Surah Baqrah, Ayah Number 17:

 

مَثَلُہُمۡ کَمَثَلِ الَّذِی اسْتَوْقَدَ نَارًا ۚ فَلَمَّاۤ اَضَآءَتْ مَا حَوْلَہٗ ذَہَبَ اللہُ بِنُوۡرِہِمْ وَتَرَکَہُمْ فِیۡ ظُلُمٰتٍ لَّا یُبْصِرُوۡنَ

 

Sureah Baqrah Ayah Number 257:

Surah Nisa Ayah Number 174:

Surah Mayeda Ayah Number 15:

Surah Mayeda Ayah Number 16:

Surah Mayeda Ayah Number 44:

Surah Mayeda Ayah Number 46:

Surah Anam Ayah Number 1:

Surah Anam Ayah Numer 91:

Surah Anam Ayah Number 122:

Surah Araf Ayah Number 157:

Surah Taubah Ayah Number 32:

Surah Younus Ayah Number 5:

Surah Ra'ad Ayah Number 16:

Surah Ibrahim Ayah Number 1:

Surah Ibrahim Ayah Number 5:

Surah Noor Ayah Number 35:

Surah Noor Ayah Number 40:

Surah Ahzab Ayah number 43:

Surah Fatir Ayah Number 20:

Surah Zumur Ayah Number 22:

Surah Zumur Ayah Number 69:

Surah Shoura Ayah Number 52:

Surah Hadeed Ayah Number 9:

Surah Hadeed Ayah Number 12:

Surah Hadeed Ayah Number 13:

Surah Hadeed Ayah Number 19:

Surah Hadeed Ayah Number 28:

Surah Saf Ayah Number 8:

Surah Taghabun Ayah Number 8:

Surah Talaq Ayah Number 11:

Surah Tahreem Ayah Number 8:

Surah Noor Ayah Number 16:

 

.................................

 

Now one by one we shall discuss each Ayah:

 

Please translate the first Ayah I quoted:

 

 

 

 

 

[Ra'id Ortan]

Sorry for late reply, as i told you that there is a net problem.

 

 

Chisti Qadri>>>

Janab main wahabi ya deo-bundi nahi ho, aur na hi mera taluq kisi bhi firqa wariat se hay.

Atleejani>>>

main yahan fight krne nahi aya aur na hi mjhe zuban se fight krne ka shoq hay.

Agar meri baat galat hay to ese Quranic ayat se prove krye, jo aap kr nahi sk rahe.

So behtar ye hay k aap es topic pr hissa na ley to behtar hoga, kiu k Tehzeeb ap ko cho kr bhi nahi guzri hay.

 

 

Dard>>>

Sifat-e-Elahi is creted by Quranic verses, so Quranic verse is not created by sifat.

As in Quran:

"Alhumdulillah"

mean sub tareef ALLAH hi k lye hay.

So hr wo chz jo tareef may smjhi jati hay, wo pahle ALLAH hi k lye use kea jaega.

Esi tarha Noor ALLAH ki tareef may bhi shumar hoga.

 

You said:

"Your defination for Noor is "NOOR ARABI ME US ROSHNI KO KAHTE HEN JO DOSRI SHE KE BADALUT PEDA HO NA KE KHOD SE ROSHAN HO""

So it's not my word, it's the word of Atleejani, i think you must read my comments clearly.

I said in my previous comments to Atleejani:

"so ap (Atleejani) k statement k mutabiq:"NOOR ARABI ME US ROSHNI KO KAHTE HEN JO DOSRI SHE KE BADALUT PEDA HO NA KE KHOD SE ROSHAN HO ""

In my openion ALLAH's noor is still undefineable.

You mention verse about Noor, so it's not the noor of ALLAH, it's the simple example of noor. like Fire and etc.

Edited 2 اگست 2010 by Ra'id Ortan

[Ra'id Ortan]

To All>>>

 

 

 

Aakhir may ye baat wazih hojati hay k Muhammad S.A.W noor nahi.

 

Kui k jin Hadith pr ye baat kahi ja rahi thi wo Hadith hi galat sabit ho gai.

 

Aur wo Hadith kuch you thi k:

 

"ALLAH ne apne noor se Muhammad S.A.W k noor ko paida kea....."

 

Jub k ALLAH ne farma dea k:

 

"na es (ALLAH) se koi paida howa aur no wo (ALLAH) kisi se paida howa"

 

(Surah Ikhlas 112:3)

 

 

 

Noor ki zaat sirf ALLAH hi hay.

 

Bht se logo ne es baat pr etraz kr k ye sawal poch lye k agr ALLAH noor hay to andhere may to

 

koi roshni hoti hi nahi to ALLAH kaise noor ho gaya, jub k ALLAH to hr jagha mojood hay.

 

Answer:

 

To eska Jawab nihayat hi asaan hay, wo ye k ALLAH ne apne apko noor kaha hi es lye ta k koi

 

ALLAH ko define na krne pae. Aur ye andhera aur roshni sirf hum insan hi k lye hay, ALLAH ne kai

 

aesi Makhlooq paida kri hain,jis k samne kbhi andhera nahi hota, aur wo andhere may bhi dekh

 

pate hain, jub k insan andhere may andhay ho jatae hain.

 

To ALLAH ko chand aur soraj ki roshni ki tarha samjhna intihai bewakofana baat hay k wo insan ko

 

nazar ata rahe ga.

 

ALLAH farmata hay:

 

"esko to kisi ki nigah Moheet nahi ho skti aur wo sub nigaho ko Moheet ho jata hay aur wahi Bara

 

(big) bareek been ba khabar hay"

 

(Surah Al-Anam 6:103)

 

To ye aetraz to galat sabit ho gaya.

 

 

 

Agla aetraz ye k Arbi may Noor roshni ko kehte hain jo kisi shey se paida hoti hay.

 

Answer:

 

"ALLAH noor hay asmano aur zamino ka"

 

(Surah Noor 24:35)

 

To ye aetraz to seedha shirk ki taraf jata howa dikhai deta hay k ALLAH bhi Naozobillah kisi ki

 

waja kr roshan hay.

 

To ye aetraz bhi galat sabit howa.

 

 

 

Aakhir may Natija ye nikla k ALLAH hi noor hay, jaisa k ALLAH ne farma dea.

 

"ALLAH noor hay asmano aur zamino ka"

 

(Surah Noor 24:35)

 

 

 

Aur koi eska Humsar nahi hay.

 

"Aur na hi eska koi humsar hay"

 

(Surah Ikhlas 112:4)

 

 

 

Aur Muhammad S.A.W insan hain, noor nahi, jinhe Rasool banaya gaya, jaisa k ense pahle Rasool ho

 

chuke hain.

 

"Aap keh dijye k main to tum jaisa hi ek insaan hon...."

 

(Surah Al-Kahaf 18:110)

 

"Muhammad S.A.W sirf rasool hi hain, ense pahle bohat se rasool ho chuke hain...."

 

(Surah Al-Imran 3:144)

 

 

 

Now it's proved that ALLAH is Noor, and Muhammad S.A.W is only Human and Messenger, not a Noor.

 

ALLAH hi Noor hay, aur Muhammad S.A.W sirf Insan aur ALLAH k pegamber hain, Noor nahi hain.

 

 

 

May ALLAH guide us(Muslims) all.

May ALLAH forgive us (Muslims) all.

May ALLAH distory them (Kafirs & Munfiqon) all.

Peace be upon to all Muslims!

Assalam-Alaik Warah Matullah!

 

 

 

 

Ra'id Ortan

 

 

[Dard]

 

@Raid:

 

I shall comment about your second post afterwards but firstly I would like to ask about following:

 

//Dard>>>

Sifat-e-Elahi is creted by Quranic verses, so Quranic verse is not created by sifat.

As in Quran:

"Alhumdulillah"

mean sub tareef ALLAH hi k lye hay.

So hr wo chz jo tareef may smjhi jati hay, wo pahle ALLAH hi k lye use kea jaega.

Esi tarha Noor ALLAH ki tareef may bhi shumar hoga//

 

Sifat e Elahi is created by Quranic Verses, what do you mean by that?

 

Secondly what do yu think if Quran is Sifat e Elahi or Takhleeq e Elahi?

 

 

[Ra'id Ortan]

Dard>>>>

Simple dude.

Now example is here.

"Alrrahmani alrraheemi"

(Surah Fatiha 1:3)

Now by this verse two sifat-e-Elahi is created.

1. Ar-Rahman

2. Ar-Raheem

 

"Maliki yawmi alddeeni"

(Surah Fatiha 1:4)

Now by this verse another sifat-e-Elahi is created.

Al-Mailk.

 

You said:

"Secondly what do yu think if Quran is Sifat e Elahi or Takhleeq e Elahi?"

Can you explain it.

Edited 3 اگست 2010 by Ra'id Ortan

[Dard]

@Raid:

 

You think "Sifat" is created by "Quran".

 

So you mean to say Quran is Creator. Am I right?

 

Secondly, I asked you whether "Quran" is Sifat e Elahi or Takhleeq e Elahi, simply I asked you if Quran is created by Allah or its Sifat of Allah?

 

The rule you described:

 

"ALRAHMAN ALRAHEEM" are created by Quran:

 

Before jumping to third ayah, lets recite first ayah:

 

"Alhamdo Lillah e Rab ul Alameen", how many sifat e elahi are created through this ayah?

[Ra'id Ortan]

Dard>>>

First thing is that you mention 99 names of ALLAH and claim that Noor is also sifat of ALLAH not zaat-e-Elahi.

 

So this 99 names of ALLAH is collected or created by Quranic verses.

According to your question that every ayat represent sifat-e-Elahi.

so this 99 names of ALLAH is mention in Quran in different ayat not every ayat, and by this we read easily 99 names of ALLAH without learning all Quran.

Quran is the book for Guidance which is created by ALLAH, in which ALLAH mention his sifat, his zaat, his identity, his mercy and many more things.

Quran is the words of ALLAH.

the first ayat of fatiha is Bismillahir rahman nir raheem.

and in second verse ALLAH said alhumdulillah, mean sub tareef ALLAH hi k lye hay.

so in Quran ALLAH mention also lot of his sifat, so these all sifat is used for ALLAH. and these are not only sifat these are also the identity of ALLAH.

 

Your main claim is that Noor is sifat, not zaat.

So Al-Ahad is also sifat, which is created by Qul howal laho ahad. Surah Ikhlas ayat 1.

so by this verse sifat is created, so Naozobillah why you can't say that actually ALLAH is not one (al-ahad), it's just a sifat?

So you never say that.

 

So Noor is not only sifat, it's also the Zaat-e-Elahi as al-ahad is the identity of ALLAH that ALLAH is one.

 

So at last you are trying to run to talk about this topic that that Muhammad S.A.W is not Noor, becuase it's impossible.

That's why you asked these question which is totally belong to Illiteration and make no sense.

But after all i give you answer of your question, and i proved that Zaat-e-Elahi is noor. and Zaat-e-Muhammad S.A.W is not noor.

Edited 5 اگست 2010 by Ra'id Ortan

[Alteejani]

Dard>>>

First thing is that you mention 99 names of ALLAH and claim that Noor is also sifat of ALLAH not zaat-e-Elahi.

 

So this 99 names of ALLAH is collected or created by Quranic verses.

According to your question that every ayat represent sifat-e-Elahi.

so this 99 names of ALLAH is mention in Quran in different ayat not every ayat, and by this we read easily 99 names of ALLAH without learning all Quran.

Quran is the book for Guidance which is created by ALLAH, in which ALLAH mention his sifat, his zaat, his identity, his mercy and many more things.

Quran is the words of ALLAH.

the first ayat of fatiha is Bismillahir rahman nir raheem.

and in second verse ALLAH said alhumdulillah, mean sub tareef ALLAH hi k lye hay.

so in Quran ALLAH mention also lot of his sifat, so these all sifat is used for ALLAH. and these are not only sifat these are also the identity of ALLAH.

 

Your main claim is that Noor is sifat, not zaat.

So Al-Ahad is also sifat, which is created by Qul howal laho ahad. Surah Ikhlas ayat 1.

so by this verse sifat is created, so Naozobillah why you can't say that actually ALLAH is not one (al-ahad), it's just a sifat?

So you never say that.

 

So Noor is not only sifat, it's also the Zaat-e-Elahi as al-ahad is the identity of ALLAH that ALLAH is one.

 

So at last you are trying to run to talk about this topic that that Muhammad S.A.W is not Noor, becuase it's impossible.

That's why you asked these question which is totally belong to Illiteration and make no sense.

But after all i give you answer of your question, and i proved that Zaat-e-Elahi is noor. and Zaat-e-Muhammad S.A.W is not noor.

 

 

RAAID ORTEN SAB AP NE YE KAHA HE KE QURAN IS CREATED BY ALLAH YANI QURAN JO HE WOH MAKHLUQ HE,ZARA YE BATAYE GA KE QURAN ME KAHAN LIKHA HE KE WOH MAKHLUQ HE,DOSRI BAT AP AB TAQ YE BATANE SE QASIR HE KE NOOR KA LAFZ JO ALLAH NE APNI ZAT KE LYE ISTAMAL KYA HE USE KYA MURAD HE,ALLAH KI SIFAT USKI ZAT SE KHAREJ NAHI OR NA ZAT KO SIFAT SE ALAG RAKH KE DEKHA JATA HE,USKI SIFAT USKE QUDRAT ME HE WOH JIS KE LYE CHAHE QAHAR BAN JAE YA CHAHE RAHMAN SARI SIFETEN USKI HI ZAT ME HE,LAKIN AP JO NOOR KO AIN ZAT SAMAJ RAHE HEN TO JANAB PHIR NOOR KI TAREEF KAREN KYO KE NOOR RSHNI KO KAHTE HEN JO KISI OR SHAE KE ZOR SE PEDA HO,AGR NOOR AIN ZAT HE TO ZAT, AIN NOOR SE WAJOOD ME AYA PHIR YE NOOR KAHAN SE AYA ?AB ISKA JAWAB AP DEN,OR HAZOOR KI ZAT KO AIN NOOR MAANA KOI SHIRK NAHI KIO KE JAB MAANE WALE NOOR HI KO MAKHLUQ MAAN TE HEN TO AIN NOOR SE PEDA HONA WALI CHEEZ KO BHI MAKHLOOQ HI TASWAR KYA JAE GA TO SHIRK KAHAN SE HO GAYA ?

Edited 5 اگست 2010 by Alteejani

[Ra'id Ortan]

Atleejani>>>

Created ka matlub samhte hain aap?

Created sirf maklooq k lye istemal nahi hoti.

Kisi bhi chz ko banana creation k lafzo may ata hay, aur ALLAH ne Quran ko banaya hay.

aur ab ap es baat se ye matlub qatan nahi nikal lye ga k hr bunne wali chz jandar ho.

Example deta hon main,

jaise ye webiste kisi ne create kri hay.

esi tarha ALLAH ne Quran ko create kea hay.

 

Now second chz.

ap bhi dard hi tarha sawal kr rahe ho.

so mjhe ek simple sa jawab chahye jo maine dard sahab se bhi pocha hay.

kia AL-Ahad sirf ALLAH ki sifat hay?

ya ye ALLAH ki nishandahi bhi hay k ALLAH sirf ek hay.

yaqenan agr ap ilm wale hon gay to ap ko noor bhi smhj ajega k ye sirf sifat nahi hay, bul k ALLAH ki zaat bhi hay.

 

aur jahan tak apka aetraz hay k roshni kisi chz se paida hoti hay, to aap mere previous post dehan se read krye jiski heading TO ALL hay, jisme ap k es aetraz ka jawab mojood hay.

 

aur beshak kisi aur zaat ko noor kehna shirk hay.

 

aakhir may sub se request hay k mere sare post dehan se read kr k jawab de, kui k ab tak kisi ne bhi mere post ko shayd sahi se read nahi kea hay, jbhi wo sawal poche ja rahe hain, jinka jawab main pahle hi de chuka hon.

Edited 5 اگست 2010 by Ra'id Ortan