rafa yadein

[Mohd Sakib]

As salam walay kum,

 

Had to invoke a 5 month old thread, even I had to register to do this.

 

I just wan to ask one question to every Muslim brother. Suppose I am in front of Allah on the day of judgement and assume

 

(i) I found Rafa-yul-dain was in practice by our beloved prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) and I prayed with rafa-yul-dain throughout my life, then Allah asks me "Why you did rafa-yul-dain." My reply would be "O Allah, I was born 1400 years after the death of prophet(pbuh) and the closest information of prophet available was hadith and practices of his companions (may Allah be pleased with them all) therefore I found, looking at hadiths, it was was obligatory do rafa-yul-dain. O Allah you yourself said in glorious Qur'aan in 4:59 that

 

'O you who believe! Obey Allâh and obey the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allâh and His Messenger , if you believe in Allâh and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination.'

 

Therefore I observed that Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Ahmed bin hambal, Imam Shaafi, Imam Malik (may Allah have mercy on all of them) all of them were differ in various issues, I came back to Allah and Prophet (pbuh)

 

(ii) Now the dangerous one, suppose I was not doing rafa-yul-dain while praying and Allah asks me "Why you prayed without doing rafa-yul-dain when there was numerous hadith of my prophet(pbuh)" I may melt with shame to say "I followed the opinion of a scholar who came 200 year after the prophet(pbuh) ie. Imam Abu Hanifa(rA) even when I was given solid proofs that prophet(pbuh) used to do rafa-yul-dain everytime he offered salah"

 

Allah may say "whom I sent to earth as my prophet, Muhammad(pbuh) or Imam Abu Hanifa ?" what can I reply then????

 

 

________________________________

 

 

See I respect all 4 great scholars, they were much intelligent then all of us combined, but at the time they gave there opinions(fatwa') the full compilation of hadiths was still in progress. Various of there opinions are against sahih hadith because these sahih hadith may not reach them at the time the gave their opinions. That is the reason all they commanded to reject their opinions if goes against Hadith of Muhammad (pbuh)

 

 

Imam abu hanifa gave the fatwa that do not say aameen loudly after imam recites surah fatiyah in loud prayers(fajr, magrib, Isha) but His own student later on gave fatwa to say aameen loudly. Why a student will go against his teacher??

 

if you look at the hadith sahih bukhari vol. 1 book of adan ch. 111 hadith 780, sahih bukhari vol. 1 book of adan ch. 112 hadith 781, sahih bukhari vol. 1 book of adan ch. 112 hadith 781, bukhari vol. 1 book of adan ch. 113 hadith 782. Same hadith comes in sahih Muslim 6 times. Prophet(pbuh) said

 

"Say ameen loudly and if your ameen voice coincide with voice of angles, Allah will forgive all your past sins"

 

Now imagine how many Muslim brothers are in ignorance, away from the fazeelat of saying ameen loudly.

 

Here I can conclude Imam Abu Hanifa was very intelligent but at them moment he was gave his opinion, theses sahih hadith may not reach him otherwise why he will go against prophet? does not make any SENSE. I typed the 'sense' in cap letters cause everytime when someone is found on falsehood due to ignorance, Allah will tell that I gave to SENSE as it is clear from Quraan.

 

 

If you want to follow Islam that was revealed from Allah then surely it is the way that Allah and Prophet(pbuh) taught us before evening of the twelfth of Rabi’ al-Awwal (June 8, 632 A.D.)

 

1/10th second vision of hell will surely make us run at olympic speed to find the truth.

 

May Allah guide every Muslim to the straight way and grant us to jannah.

 

Jazak Allah Khair

[Abdur Rehman]

As salam walay kum,

Had to invoke a 5 month old thread, even I had to register to do this.

I just want to ask one question to every Muslim brother. Suppose I am in front of Allah on the day of judgement and assume

(i) I found Rafa-yul-dain was in practice by our beloved prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) and I prayed with rafa-yul-dain throughout my life, then Allah asks me "Why you did rafa-yul-dain." My reply would be "O Allah, I was born 1400 years after the death of prophet(pbuh) and the closest information of prophet available was hadith and practices of his companions (may Allah be pleased with them all) therefore I found, looking at hadiths, it was was obligatory do rafa-yul-dain. O Allah you yourself said in glorious Qur'aan in 4:59 that

'O you who believe! Obey Allâh and obey the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allâh and His Messenger saw.gif, if you believe in Allâh and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination.'

Therefore I observed that Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Ahmed bin hambal, Imam Shaafi, Imam Malik (may Allah have mercy on all of them) all of them were differ in various issues, I came back to Allah and Prophet (pbuh)

 

You do not need to assume regarding The practices of Prophet and you do not need to wait for the day of judgement Allah azzawajal already made it quite clear with numerous authentic Ahadis which you simply ignore and then by the continous practice of Majority of Muslims since the time of Prophet , which you oppose and follow a way other then of Mainstream Muslim Majority ie 'Sawad e Azam'

You observed that you became a very big scholar and now you can understand Quran and Hadis better then Imam Abu Hanfia , Imam Shafai , Imam Malik and Imam Ahmed Bin Hambal and hundreds of thousands of scholars from Salf and Khalf who followed them ; then please come forward and prove your point with Quran and Hadis.

 

Note: Please Read the complete thread from start before carrying on with your arguments.

 

(ii) Now the dangerous one, suppose I was not doing rafa-yul-dain while praying and Allah asks me "Why you prayed without doing rafa-yul-dain when there was numerous hadith of my prophet(pbuh)" I may melt with shame to say "I followed the opinion of a scholar * who came 200 year after the prophet(pbuh) ie. Imam Abu Hanifa(rA) even when I was given solid proofs that prophet(pbuh) used to do rafa-yul-dain everytime he offered salah"

Allah may say "whom I sent to earth as my prophet, Muhammad(pbuh) or Imam Abu Hanifa ra.gif?" what can I reply then????

 

as Allah azzawjaal already provided you with guidance ,and ordered to follow the muslims of knowledge yet if you close your eyes then its your flaw and your point (ii) is invalid untill you prove point number (i) i-e Rafa Ya'dain is a Continuous practice of Prophet and that He ordered to do so.

Howeve,r let me tell you a simple rule- to understand Quran and Hadis and to derive Ma'sail from them is not an easy task as you are thinking.This is the job of those who dedicated all their life acquiring Ilam e Deen and also Allah rewarded them with the Ilam al Marifa required to understand the Quran and Hadis.Such great scholars who became an authority, with their God given wisdom and knowledge derived solutions and ordinary Muslims are only required to follow such men of knowledge as Quran says and you also quoted:

 

'O you who believe! Obey Allâh and obey the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allâh and His Messenger if you believe in Allâh and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination.'

 

Who are those muslims in Authority? before you say they are only Rulers let's see from Tafsir Ibne Abbas raziAllah anho

Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs:

 

{ يَا أَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ أَطِيعُواْ ٱللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُواْ ٱلرَّسُولَ وَأُوْلِي ٱلأَمْرِ مِنْكُمْ فَإِن تَنَازَعْتُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ فَرُدُّوهُ إِلَى ٱللَّهِ وَٱلرَّسُولِ إِن كُنْتُمْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِٱللَّهِ وَٱلْيَوْمِ ٱلآخِرِ ذٰلِكَ خَيْرٌ وَأَحْسَنُ تَأْوِيلاً }

 

(O ye who believe!) 'Uthman Ibn Talhah and his fellow believers. (Obey Allah) in that which He has commanded you, (and obey the messenger) in that which he commands you (and those of you who are in authority) the leaders of military expeditions; it also said that this means: the men of sacred knowledge; (and if ye have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah) to the Book of Allah (and the messenger) and to the practice of the Messenger (if you are (in truth) believers in Allah and the Last Day) resurrection after death. (That) referring the matter to the Book of Allah and the practice of His Messenger (is better and more seemly in the end).

 

And Allah azzawajal says in Quran :Al Anbiya verse 7

 

وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا قَبْلَكَ إِلاَّ رِجَالاً نُّوحِي إِلَيْهِمْ فَاسْأَلُواْ أَهْلَ الذِّكْرِ إِن كُنتُمْ لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ

And We sent not before you but men whom We revealed then O people! Ask the men of knowledge if you have no knowledge

and Allah azzawajal teaches us to follow the way of those who are favoured by Allah azzawajal

 

Al Fatiha verse 6 and 7

 

اهدِنَا الصِّرَاطَ المُستَقِيمَ صِرَاطَ الَّذِينَ أَنعَمتَ عَلَيهِمْ غَيرِ المَغضُوبِ عَلَيهِمْ وَلاَ الضَّالِّينَ

Guide us in the straight path.The path of those whom You have favoured. Not of those who have earned Your anger and nor of those who have gone astray.

 

And Allah says in Al Furqan verse 74 proves that there are Imams for those who are Muttaqoon

 

وَالَّذِينَ يَقُولُونَ رَبَّنَا هَبْ لَنَا مِنْ أَزْوَاجِنَا وَذُرِّيَّاتِنَا قُرَّةَ أَعْيُنٍ وَاجْعَلْنَا لِلْمُتَّقِينَ إِمَامًا

And those who submit, 'O Our Lord', grant us from our lives and offspring the coolness of eyes and make us the leader of those who guard themselves against evil.

 

The Prophet said

Narrated In Mishkat Kitab al Ammara:

When you are united under one person, someone comes to you and He wants to break your truncheon and divide you, then Kill him

 

and also in Mishkat Kitabul Ammara :

If someone dies without having the pledge (BAIT) of anyone on his neck then he died the death of Jahiliya.

 

and in Mishkat kitab al Jahad:

If three are in journey then they should take one of them as their Leader.

 

Quran says in Al Baqara verse 286

 

لاَ يُكَلِّفُ اللّهُ نَفْسًا إِلاَّ وُسْعَهَا

Allah places not burden on any soul but to the extent of his strength .....

 

A Sunni would answer:

''Oh Allah azzawajal I read all those clear verses in Quran and Ahadis and when I saw various people with various claims and everybody inviting towards a different way I decided, with my little knowledge and by the help of clear verses of Quran and Ahadis that I should follow the majority of Muslims and when i found out that people who are born only some centuries ago , are challenging the way of those who have been around since the first century I understood by Your blessings that those who are very close to the Prophet's time would definitely be more pious and more knowledgeable and more aware of Prophet's practices then those who are born in those days near the end of times when knowledge was being lifted. so my Allah azzawajal with Your blessings I followed the mainstream and continous way of Muslims proven from the 1st century of Islam and rejected the way of newly born Bid'atis.''

 

Imam abu hanifa gave the fatwa that do not say aameen loudly after imam recites surah fatiyah in loud prayers(fajr, magrib, Isha) but His own student later on gave fatwa to say aameen loudly. Why a student will go against his teacher??

if you look at the hadith sahih bukhari vol. 1 book of adan ch. 111 hadith 780, sahih bukhari vol. 1 book of adan ch. 112 hadith 781, sahih bukhari vol. 1 book of adan ch. 112 hadith 781, bukhari vol. 1 book of adan ch. 113 hadith 782. Same hadith comes in sahih Muslim 6 times. Prophet(pbuh) said

"Say ameen loudly and if your ameen voice coincide with voice of angles, Allah will forgive all your past sins"

Now imagine how many Muslim brothers are in ignorance, away from the fazeelat of saying ameen loudly.

Here I can conclude Imam Abu Hanifa was very intelligent but at them moment he was gave his opinion, theses sahih hadith may not reach him otherwise why he will go against prophet? does not make any SENSE. I typed the 'sense' in cap letters cause everytime when someone is found on falsehood due to ignorance, Allah will tell that I gave to SENSE as it is clear from Quraan.

If you want to follow Islam that was revealed from Allah then surely it is the way that Allah and Prophet(pbuh) taught us before evening of the twelfth of Rabi’ al-Awwal (June 8, 632 A.D.)

1/10th second vision of hell will surely make us run at olympic speed to find the truth.

May Allah guide every Muslim to the straight way and grant us to jannah.

Jazak Allah Khair

 

Aamin should not be said loudly , if you have any objection then please discuss in relevant thread

http://www.islamimehfil.info/index.php?showtopic=3451

 

The Prophet said which means that best of era is Prophet's era and then Companions and then so on.. The most it gets distant from the time of Prophet the least blessed it is (in every means piety , knowledge , blessings)

 

* Imam AbuHanifa was Born in 70 (some say 77 or 80) Hijri and Passed away in 150 Hijri. I wonder where did you learn that he came 200 years after Prophet alaihislam

 

Imam Azam Abu hanifa was a Taba'ii His Grandfather was in the company of Hazrat Ali . and Imam Abu Hanifa himself, lived in the era of many Sahaba rizwanullah alaihim ajmaeen and his meeting with some Sahaba rizwanullahalaihim is unanimously confirmed, including Hazrat Anas bin Malik ,Abdullah ibne AbiAuna, Sahal Ibne Sad Sa'adi and AbuTufail Amir bin Saasla rizwanullah alaihim ajmaeen he received Ahadis from seven Sahaba kiram rizwanullah ajmaeen.

 

your claim is that one of the most brilliant scholar of all times who lived and learnt from Sahaba rizwanullah ajmaeen (who learnt from Prophet alaihiSlam ) did not know how to pray and did not know sahih ahadis and after 1400 years , by only reading books written by present day wahabis you came to know all the sahih ahadis then this claim is very ignorant and sorry to say Stupid and i write in caps NONSENSE.

________________________________________________________________________________

_________________________________

Surah Al isra Verse 71:

 

يَوْمَ نَدْعُو كُلَّ أُنَاسٍ بِإِمَامِهِمْ فَمَنْ أُوتِيَ كِتَابَهُ بِيَمِينِهِ فَأُوْلَئِكَ يَقْرَؤُونَ كِتَابَهُمْ وَلاَ يُظْلَمُونَ فَتِيلاً

The day when We shall call every people. With their leaders, then whosoever is given his record in his right hand, they shall read their records and their rights" shall not be suppressed a single thread.

 

Alhamdulillah all sunnis with their Imams following the Sahaba rizwanullah alaihim ajmaeen Rasulullah alaihiSlam will be marching towards heaven and those who made a different way and created f'itna aongst muslims would be answering about their home made religion.

 

as Quran Says : Al nisa verse 115

 

وَمَن يُشَاقِقِ الرَّسُولَ مِن بَعْدِ مَا تَبَيَّنَ لَهُ الْهُدَى وَيَتَّبِعْ غَيْرَ سَبِيلِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ نُوَلِّهِ مَا تَوَلَّى وَنُصْلِهِ جَهَنَّمَ وَسَاءتْ مَصِيرًا

And whoso opposes the Messenger after the right way has become clear and follows a way other than the way of Muslims, We shall leave him on his own conditions and shall cause him to enter Hell; and what is an evil place of returning.

 

1/10th second vision of hell would surely be making all such people wish that they were able to run away at olympic speed but by then it would be very late.

 

you registerd and posted thank you for that and I hope you would carry on with your Dala'il on the topic of this thread i-e Rafa' Yadain as a continous practise of Prophet

 

Wasslamo Ala man ittaba'il huda.

[محمد عویدص]

جزاک اللہ خیر

[Mohd Sakib]

.............you registerd and posted thank you for that and I hope you would carry on with your Dala'il on the topic of this thread i-e Rafa' Yadain as a continous practise of Prophet

 

Wasslamo Ala man ittaba'il huda.

 

 

All four great scholars were differ in various masails thats why I am coming back to Allah and his rasool(pbuh). If you have any alligation to prove that all scholars were not differ then I would love to continue this thread.

 

Brother peace be upon you and all of us

[Abdur Rehman]

All four great scholars were differ in various masails thats why I am coming back to Allah and his rasool(pbuh). If you have any alligation to prove that all scholars were not differ then I would love to continue this thread.

Brother peace be upon you and all of us

 

Asslam o alaikum to all muslims,

 

How ignorant and arrogant is the claim that because four great scholars differ you are coming back to Quran o Hadis? does it not mean you want to say these four great scholars were all wrong and did not know what Quran and Hadis say?

 

to put it simple you are saying that all four great scholars were wrong and out of the way of Allah azzawjaal and Prophet alaihislam?

 

even now the majority of the muslims , the mainstream of ummat e muslima are away from the way of Allah azzawjal and Prophet alaihiSlam? and you are on the right path?

 

this thread is for Rafa yadain if you have any point , references, proofs pls come forward and let us all know as well

 

.. and you can very fondly start a new thread regarding the difference amongst scholars and prove your point there that All 4 Imams were wrong and that their fatwas were against Quran o Ahadis.

[Abdur Rehman]

 

your last post have been moved into a new thread here http://www.islamimehfil.info/index.php?showtopic=5205

 

Keep yourself to the topic please we can always discuss the Position and Status of four Imams in that thread but would you kindly remain on topic plz and firstly, discuss here on the issue of Rafa e Yadain.. please read all the Dalails given in previous posts and then post your reply on those references, so that we can move on .

 

let me tell you that all of our forum members understand Urdu but some of them might not understand English therefore it would be better if you can type in Urdu or roman Urdu so that the other members could also be able to read our posts.

 

wasslamo ala ma it'tabail huda

[Talinenoor]

Asslamoalikum 2 all muslims,

 

Kaafi arsa pehle idher aik tafseeli mazmoon RafYaden k topic per post kia tha jis ka abhi bhi koi jawab sahih tor per mojood nahin. Parrhne walon se guzarish hai k molahiza karen:

 

http://www.islamimehfil.info/index.php?sho...ic=3542&hl=

[Ghulam E Mustafa]

talinenoor sahib welcome back app ko dobara yahan dekh kar buhat khushi hoi

Per zarori nahi app ke post kiye gai topic mein uss ka jawab diya jata Alhumdulilah humari community per Rafah Yadain ke aur bhi buhat say topics hain app search karne ki takleef farma lain.

And koi Hadith pesh karain jiss say yeh sabit ho ke Huzoor (sallalahu alaihe wassalam) ne apne wisaal mubarik tak Rafah Yadain farmaya ?

[Talinenoor]

talinenoor sahib welcome back app ko dobara yahan dekh kar buhat khushi hoi

Per zarori nahi app ke post kiye gai topic mein uss ka jawab diya jata Alhumdulilah humari community per Rafah Yadain ke aur bhi buhat say topics hain app search karne ki takleef farma lain.

And koi Hadith pesh karain jiss say yeh sabit ho ke Huzoor (sallalahu alaihe wassalam) ne apne wisaal mubarik tak Rafah Yadain farmaya ?

 

Asslamoalikum 2 all muslims,

 

Main dobara iss forum per nahin aaya. Kion'k itna waqat dastiab nahin k apna time regular idher de sakoon. Achanak iss forum per aana hua to iss topic ko dekh ker socha k iss mozoo per jo meri thread hai uss ko bhi share ker doon ta'k sab k saamne donon pehloo rahen.

 

Jahan tak taluq hai aap k mutalibe ka k main koi aisi hadees pesh keroon jis main {yeh sabit ho ke Huzoor (sallalahu alaihe wassalam) ne apne wisaal mubarik tak Rafah Yadain farmaya ?}

Iss silsile main do baten arez hain:

 

1) Nabi s.a.w ka RafaYaden kerna aap logon ko bhi tasleem hai. Iss k baad aap logon ka dawa yeh hai k Nabi s.a.w. ne Rakoo wale RafaYaden se mana ker dia tha. Iss dawe ki daleel aap k zimme hai. Hmare nazdeek jab RafaYaden se mana ya iss ka mansookh hona sabit nahin to yehi nabi s.a.w ki sunnet hai.

 

2) Ahnaf shuroo namaz main, witer main qanoot se pehle aur Eid ki namaz main RafaYaden kerte hain. Aap se mutaliba hai k woh hadees pesh karen jis main inn jaghon per RafaYaden kerna Nabi s.a.w. se aakhir tak saabit ho.

Jab inn jaghon per aisi kissi daleel ko aap pesh nahin ker sakte bal'k bas Ahadees main saboot ka baad inn ki mana na hone ki wajah se hi inhen Nabi s.a.w. ki sunnet maante hain to phir Rakoo wale RafaYaden k liye yeh alag sharet kion....?

 

wasalam

Edited 11 ستمبر 2008 by talinenoor

[navaid_khan]

Ye Woh Hadith Hei Jo Ehnaaf Pesh Kartei Hein K Ye Rafaydein Ki Munkir Hei Yani K Is Se Rafadein Karnain ki Mumaniyat Hei.... Baqiee Dusree jo Abdullah Bin Masood Ki Hei Insha'Allah Woh BHi Bohat Jald DOoongga Kyun k Woh Sunan Abu Daud Ki Hei.... Aur Us ko Imam Termidhi Nain Zaeef Kahaa Hei Aur Jo Hadith Main Pesh Kar Raha hoon Ye hadith Sahee Hei Mager Is main kaheen Rafaydein ki manadee Sabit nahin hoti ye hadith Tashahud main salam phairtei waqt ilanain ko manaa kartee hei...

 

 

 

,

Bhai kafeel app nay bila dhrak ya kasay bol dia kay HAZRAT ABDULLAH BIN MASOOD wali hadis zaeef hai? agar ya hadis saeef hai tu phir iss mai kon say ravi per app ko shuba hai? zara wazhat karain aor yaad rahay kay us ravi ko khyen app apnay matalb ke hadis mai use na kar rahay hon? zara ya read kar liain app ki khidmat mai hazir kar raha hon aor sub bhaion say guzarish hai kay aasay he kise baat per foran na maan jayin kay jasay kafeel shaib nay bola kay zaef hai hadis aor hum maan lain ya drust nahi. kafeel sahib app is ko read karain aor phir juld aagha karain, ho sakta hai lkhnay mai koie gali hoie ho tu wazahat talab kar saktay hain. magar bagair tahkeek kise baat hadis ko zaeef na bloain. . read karain.

 

 

 

 

Hazrat ALKAMAH nay farmaya kay Hazrat ABDULLAH BIN MASOOD nay farmaya kia mai tumhain RASOOL PAK ke namaz par kar na dikhaon pus app nay namaz parhi lakin Rafa yadain sirf namaz ke ibtida mai kia phir Rafa yadain nahi kia. dekho (Tarmizi Shareef 1 Suwaat 59 )

 

 

(iss baab mai BAARA BIN AAZIB say bhi riwayet hai) IMAM TARMAZI farmatay hain kay HAZRAT ABDULLAH BIN MASOOD ke hadis HASSAN hai aor kayie SAHABA IKRAM ahle ilam aor kayie TAABAIN IKRAM ka iss hadis per amal hai (Yani Rafa yadain nahi kartay Siway Takbeer Iftitah kay) aor ya he kol HAZRAT SUFYIAN SORI ka hai (Jin ke Hadis ko IMAM BUKHARI nay ek mukam per ASHA kaaha) aor ya he kol Ahle Koofa ka hai.

 

 

Iss Hadis ke sanad mai kul 8 RAVI hain. Pehalay RAVI khod IMAM TARMAZI hain jin kay SAKHA SABAT (SAHAI) IMAM hadis honay mai sub ka itafak hai.

 

 

1.Introduction to JAMA TARMAZI SHAREEF:-

 

Ghair Mukaladin kay imam mohadis mustunad molvi nawab siddique hassan bhopali apni kitab AL-HATTHAH fe zikar SAHA SATHA SUWWAT 239 per TARMAZI SHAREEF ko JAAMAY UL SAHI likhtay hain. Baad chand satoor likhtay hain kay IMAMA TARMAZI nay farmaya kay mai nay iss kitab ko (TARMAZI) tasneef kia ULMA HAJAZ, ULMA IRAQ, & ULMA KHRASAN per pesh kia sub iss kitab kay sath razi howay (Yani pasand farmaya)

 

 

2. 2^nd Ravi HANAD hain IMAM NISAIE nay kahaa kay HANAD SAKA hai, IBN HABAN nay sakaat mai dakhil kia, Dekho Asma UL Rajal mai (Thazeeb Ut Thazeeb 6 Suwat 47-48)

 

 

3^rd RAVI WAKIE, ABDULAH BIN AHMED nay apnay baap say riwayet ke hai kay mai nay WAKIE say bara AALIM aor HAFIZ nahi dekha aor farmatay thaay kay WAKIE hafiz hai, Hafiz hai aor ABDUL REHMAN BIN MAHDI say bara HAFIZ hai. Dekho Asma ul Rijal (Tahzeeb ut Tahzeeb 6 Suwaat 81-82)

 

 

4^th Ravi SUFYIAN hazrat SUFYAN SORI ka tarjuma hum gair mukalid wahabion kay MOHADIS YAHYA GOLANDI sahib ke zabani daraj kartay hain. YAHYA GOLANDI Ghair Mukalid aor tasub parasat hai. Apni kitab (AAMIN BIL JIRAH SUWAAT 25) per likhtay hain kay hafiz IBN-E-HAJAR farmatay hain kay, IMAM SUFYIAN SORI mashoor IMAM FIQIAH abid aor bohat baray HAFIZ thaay. IMAM NISAIE wagera nay inn ko MUDLIS kaaha hai IMAMM BUKHARI farmatay hain kay inn ke TADLEES bohat he kum hai.

 

Hafiz IBN-E-HAJAR nay Mudalesin ko 5 Tabkon mai takseem kia hai aor IMAM SORI ko dosray tabkay ke ke khod he wazahat kar de hai Farmatay hain. Dosra tabka jin ke tadlees ko AYMA IKRAM nay kabool kia aor imamat aor kilat tadlees ke wajha say SAHI mai hadis lee hain jaisa kay SORI thaay ya phir iss tabkay mai aasay RAVI hain jo sirf SAKHA RAVION say tadlees kartay thaay jesa kay INAN IBN AAYNIAYAH. Hafiz IBN-E-HAJAR ke iss usoole tehreer say wazha ho gaaya hai kay agar cha IMAM SORI mudalis thay magar muzir nahi jo hadis ke sehat per asar andaz ho aor hadis ko tadlees ke wajha say rad kar dia jaay. Dekho (AAMIN BIL JIRAH SUWAAT 25-26).

 

Hum nay IMAM SUFYIAN ke sakaat Ghair Mukalid wahabi YAHYA GOLANDI sahib ke kitab say UTARA HAI ke hai taakay koie Ghair Mukalid iss ka inakar-e-hadis kay nasay mai IMAM SUFYIAN per tadlees ka atraz kar kay HADIS say inkar na kar sakay iss liay YAHYA GOLANDI sahib nay IMAM SUFIYAN ke tadlees ka jawab bhi day dia hai iss say bhar kar ya kay IMAM SUFIYAN sahi BUKHARI SHAREEF kay RAVI hain. Aor IMAM BUKHARI nay IMAM Shoba kay mukblay mai IMAM SUFIYAN ke HADIS sahi karar de hai. (AAMIN BIL JHAR kay baray mai).

 

 

5^th RAVI, ASIM BIN KALIEB, inn ka pora naam ASIM BIN KALIEB BIN SHAHAB AL JARMI AL KOFI hai. Unhonay apnay baap aor HAZRAT ABU BURDA BIN MOOSA wa ABDUL REHMAN BIN ASWAD wa MEHRIB BIN DSAAR wa ALKAMAH BIN WAMIL BIN HAJHAR wa MUHMMAD BIN KAAB AL-KARZI wagera say hadis rivait ke hai aor inn say IBN AOWN wa IMAM SHAABA.KASIM BIN MALIK AL MAZNI, WAZAIDHA, WA ABU ALHOZ wa SHARIEK WA SUFIYAN SORI, wa SUFIYAN BIN AAINIAH aor ABU AWANTHA wa ALI BIN ASIM AL WASTI wagera riwayiat kartay hain. IMAM ASRAM nay IMAM AHMED say bayian kia kay (LA BAS BA HADASNA) kay is ke haids mai koie dur nahi. IMAM INB MOIN aor IMAM NISAIE nay khaa kay saka hai IMAM ABU KATIM nay kahaa kay SUALEH hai. IBN HABAAN nay sakaat mai dakhil kia, aor wo SAKHA MAMOON hai. INB AL MADINIE nay kaaha jub munfarid ho tu iss ke hadis hujaat nahi lakin IMAM IBN SAAD nay kaaha kay SAKA hai aor HUJAAT hai.

 

DEKHO ASMA ul RIJAL (Tehzeeb ut Tehzeeb 3 Suwaat 40)

 

 

Note: IMAM IBN AL MADANI nay jo kahaa hai kay jub mufarid HUJAT nahi tu iss hadis mai ASIM BIN KALIEB munfarid nahi hai jasa kay aagay app mulaizha farmayin gay lakin IMAM IBN SAAD nay farma dia hai kay ya SAAKA hai aor hujat hai. Iss kay bawajod hum iss ka jawab GAIR MUKALIDIN kay ghar say daytay hain.

 

 

1, GAIR MUKALADIN wahabi seenay per haat bandh nay wali haid IBN-E-KHUZAIMA kay hawalay say jo hazrat WAIL BIN HAJAR say marvi hai pesh kartay hain aor iss hadis ko sub GAIR MUKALID molvi sahi kehtay hain. Iss ke sanad mai ya he ASIM BIN KALIEB hai. Tu agar gair mukaladin ko ASIM BIN KALIEB per atraz hai kay ya zaeef hai ya koiew aor atraz hai tu senay per haat bandhnay wali hadis bhi GAIR MUKALIDIN ko zaeef kehna paray ga magar iss ko sahi kehtay hain kioun? Agar wahan SAAKA hai tu phir yahan bh SAAKA mano na. Aor mazeed ya kay YAHYA GOLANDI SAHIB SUWAAT 84 per likhaty hain kay hadis number 18 kay tehat (aor iss mai ASIM BI KALIEB hai) likhaty hain kay ya hadis wa asnaad ke wajha say hassan darja ke hai bakadar AL HAJAAT aor akhir mai likhtay hain kay iss hadis per rakim kay samnay koie atraz nahi aaya Dekho (KITAB AAMIN BIL JHHAR SUWAAT 84).

 

Tu YAHYA BIN GOLANDI ko ASIM BIN KALIEB per koie atraz nahi baki WAHBION ko bhi nahi hona chayiea. ALLAH pak hidayit farmayaa (AAMIN).

 

 

6. RAVI ABDUL REHMAN BIN ASWAAD:

 

IMAM IBN-E-MOIN, IMAM NISAIE, IMAM AJLIE, AOR IBN-E-KARASH NAY ABDUL REHMAN BIN ASWAAD KO SAAAKA KAAHA AOR IBN-E-KARASH NAY KAAHA HAI KAY LOGON SAY BATHER HAI. IMAM IBN-E-HAJAR ASKALANI FARMATAY HAIN KAY MAI KEHTA HON KAY IBN-E-HAABAN NAY APP KO SAAKAT MAI DAKHIL KIA HAI.

 

DEKHO ASMA UL RIJAL (TEHZEEB UT TEHZEEB 3 SUWAT 399)

 

 

7. RAVI HAZRAT ALKAMAAH:

 

HAZRAT ALKAMMAH BIN KAIS BIN ABDULLAH BIN MALIK APP KA NAAM HAI APP RASOOL PAK KE HAYAIT MUBARKA MAI PAADA HOWAY AOR HAZRAT UMAR FAROOQUE , HAZRAT USMAN , HAZRAT SAAD , HAZRAT KATIJAH HAZRAT ALI , HAZRAT ABU AL DARAD AA , HAZRAT IBN-E-MASOOD WA DIGAR KAYI ASHAB RASOOL SAY APP NAY RIVIYAT BAYAN KE HAIN AOR APP SAY HAZRAT IBRAHIM NAKHIE HAZRAT AAMIR AL SHAHBI HAZRAT ABU WAIL SHAQIK BIN SALMA AOR DIGAR KAYIE HAZRAT NAY APP SAY RIVAYET BAYAN KARI HAIN.

 

ABU TALIB NAY IMAM AHMED SAY BAYEN KIA KAY APP SAAKA HAIN AOR AHLE-E-KHAIR SAY HAIN. USMAN BIN SAEED NAY KAAHA HAI KAY MAI NAY IMAM IBN-E-MOIN KO KAAHA KAY ALKAMAH AOR UBAINDHA MAI APP KO ZADHA PAYRA KON HAI TU UNHO NAY KISE KO TARJHEE NAHI DE. USMAN NAY KAAHA DONO SAAKA HAI LAKIN ALKAMAAH HAZRAT ABDULLAH BIN MASOOD KE HADIS KO ZADHA JAANAY WAALAY HAIN. IMAM IBN AL-MADINI NAY KAAHA KAY SUB LOGON SAY ZADHA HAZRAT IBN MASOOD KE HADIS KO JANAY WALAY HAZRAT ALKAMAAH HAIN AOR HAZRAT ASSWAD WAGERA.

 

 

ISS HADIS KAY KUL 8 RAVI HAIN IMAM TARMAZI SAY LAY KAR HAZRAT ALKAMAAH TAAK 7 RAVION KAY BAARY MAI BATYA JA CHUKA HAI. ABB ISS HADIS KAY AKHRI RAVI HAZRAT ABDULLAH BIN MASOOD KAY FAZAIL BAYAIN HOTAY KARTAY HAIN. TAMAM AHLE ISLAM KA ISS BAAT PER IJMA HAI KAY TAMMAM SAHABA IKRAM SADIQUE SAAKA HAIN LAKIN GAIR MUKALADIN NA JAANAY KIS NASHAY MAI HO KAR HAZRAT ABDULLAH BIN MASOOD PER MUKTHLIF ATRAZAT KARTAY HAIN KABHI APP PER YA ILZAM LAGATAY HAIN KAY APP SORA AL-NAAS AOR SORA-E-FALAK KO QURAN KA HISA NAHI SAMAJHTAY THAAY. TU KABHI KEHTAY HAIN KAY APP RAFA YADIN BHOL GAAY THAAY. ALGARAZ APNI AADAT SAY MAJBOOR HO KAR YA BAD AKIDA LOG HAZRAT IBN MASOOD PER DIFFERENT ATRAZ KARTAY RAHTAY HAIN. AGAR CHA INN ATRAZAT KAY JAWABAT AJJ SAY KAYI SAAL PEHLAY IMMAM ZAIE JASI MOTABAR HASTI NAY DIAY HAIN LAKIN YA LOG AJJ BHI APNI ZID PER KAYIM HAIN.

 

 

HAZRAT ABDULLAH BIN MASOOD KAY FAZAIL KA MUKTHSAR BAYAN:

 

1,HAZRAT ABDULLAH BIN MASOOD NAY FARMAYA ZAROR ASHAB RASOOL KO ILAM HAI KAY MAI ALLAH PAK KE KITAB KA SUB SAY BAARA AALIM HON AGAR MAI JAANTA KAY KOIE MUJH SAY ZADHA ALLAH K KITAB KO JANTA HAI TU MAI US KE TARAF ZAROR JAATA.

 

2, HAZRAT MASROOK HAZRAT ABDULLAH BIN MASOOD SAY RAVI HAIN KAY APP NAY FARMAYA ALLAH KE KASAM JIS KAY BAGIR KOIE MABOOD NAHI KITAB ALLAH KE HAR SORAT KAY BARAY MAI JAANTA HON KAY WO KAAHAN NAZIL HOIE AOR HAAR AAYIT KARMIA KO JAANAT HON KAY KIS KAY BARAY MAI NAZIL HOIE. AGAR MAI JAANTA KAY KOIE MUJH SAY BAARA AALIM HAI KITAB ALLAH KA TU MAI ZAROR US KE TARAF SAWARI PER SAWAR HO KAR JAATA.

 

DEKHO (MUSLIM SHAREEF 2 SUWWAT 293).

 

3, HAZOOR PAK NAY FARMAYA KAY QURAN 4 ADMION SAY SIKH IN MAI HAZRAT ABDULLAH KA NAAM SUB SAY PEHLAY LIA.

 

DEKHO (MUSLIM SHAREEF 2 SUWAAT 293, BUKHARI SHAREEF 1 SUWAAT 531, TARMAZI SHAREEF 2 SUWAAT 221).

 

 

4, HAZOOR PAK NAY FARMAYA KAY AGAR BAGAIR KISE ADVICE KAY MAI KISE KO AMEER BAANATA TU HAZRAT ABDULLAH BIN MASOOD KO BAANATA.

 

(DEKHO TARMAZI SHAREEF 2 SUWAAT 221).

 

 

ALGARAZ HAZRAT ABDULLAH BIN MASOOD KAY FAZAIL , MANAKIB WA AHADIS WA ASAR BAY SHUMAR HAIN MAGAR THORA HE DARJ KIAY HAIN .

 

 

MERAY BHAI ABB KIA BOLTAY HON APP RAFAYADIN KAY BARAY MAI PLEASE KINDLY INFORM ME SOON.

[Talinenoor]

Asslamoalikum 2 all muslims,

 

Syedna Ibn-e-Masood R.A. ki jo Hadees RafaYaden k khilaaf pesh ki jati hai woh hergiz sahih nahin bal'k zaeef hai aur khud ahnaf k bhi khilaaf hai. Yeh baat main apne tafseeli mazmoon main bian ker chukka hoon.

 

Lakin abhi coon'k phir issi hadees ko pesh kia ja raha hai to dibara siref issi hadees ki wazahet dobara de raha hoon. umeed kerta hoon parrhne wale insaaf k saath faisla karen ge. Baqi jis ne tafseel se RafaYaden k dalael aur iss k khilaaf pesh hone wale shub'haat ki wazahet dekhni ho woh molahiza kare:

http://www.islamimehfil.info/index.php?sho...ic=3542&hl=

[Khalil Rana]

[Ghulam E Mustafa]

Muhtarram Khalil Rana sahib

[Talinenoor]

Asslamoalikum 2 all muslims,

 

Janab Khalil Rana Sahib,

 

Aap ne Sahih Muslim ki hadees ka tarjuma kerte hue hue lafaz likhe hain "beech aam namaz ke". Aap se poochna hai k yeh aam ka lafaz hadees main kahan per hai? Apna man'chaha matlab nikalne k liye tehreef to na karen. Kion'k hadees main to aam ya khaas ki qaid hergiz mojood nahin.

 

Baqi raha aap ka yeh man'gharrat falsafa k shumes woh ghora hota hai jo dum ko aise hilata hai k badan bhi saath herket kare to iss falsafe ko daleel se wazeh karen. Mazeed yeh bhi bata dain k ager RafaYaden aise kia jae k haath uthae jaen aur phir sakoon hone per Rakoo k liye jhuka jae to phir to aap ka falsafa bhi fail ho jae ga.

 

Phir aap ka yeh falsafa iss liye bhi fail hai k kissi aik sahabi ne bhi iss hadees se yeh matlab akhez nahin kia. Unn se badastoor RafaYaden kerna sabit hain Nabi s.a.w. ke baad bhi jis k beshumaar dalael main apne tafseeli mazmoon main de aaya hoon. Doosra Muslim ki jo doosri hadees hai uss main saaf wazahet hai k yeh salam k waqat hath ka ishara tha jisse dekh ker aap ne shumes ghore ki tashbeeh di. Khud insaaf se bataie kia uss halat main aap ka yeh man'gharrat falsafa chal sakta hai.

Aema Hadees Imam Bukhari, Imam Navavi, Hafiz Ibn-e-Hajer Usqulani jaise mutqadimeen muhadiseen ne iss per sakhet jirah ker rakhi hai jo iss hadees se Rakoo wale RafaYaden ki daleel leta hai.

 

Lahaza aap se guzarish hai k apne istidlal ko dalael se muratib karen werna ham aap ki man'maani tehreef aur tashreeh manane ke mukalif nahin. Allah samajhne ki tofeeq de, Aameen.

 

Parrhne walon se guzarish hai k mere tafseeli mazmoon main iss hadees ka jo tafseeli jawab kai aik dalael k saath dia gaya hai aur sabit kia gaya hai k iss hadees ka taluq Rakoo wale RafaYaden k saath hergiz nahin bal'k salam k waqat k saath hai ko zaroor molahiza karen. Phir khud faisla karen k kia itne dalael k baad bhi aise kissi man'gharrat falsafe ki gunjaesh baqi rehti hai.

http://www.islamimehfil.info/index.php?sho...ic=3542&hl=

Edited 13 ستمبر 2008 by talinenoor

[navaid_khan]

Asslamoalikum 2 all muslims,

 

Janab Khalil Rana Sahib,

 

Aap ne Sahih Muslim ki hadees ka tarjuma kerte hue hue lafaz likhe hain "beech aam namaz ke". Aap se poochna hai k yeh aam ka lafaz hadees main kahan per hai? Apna man'chaha matlab nikalne k liye tehreef to na karen. Kion'k hadees main to aam ya khaas ki qaid hergiz mojood nahin.

 

Baqi raha aap ka yeh man'gharrat falsafa k shumes woh ghora hota hai jo dum ko aise hilata hai k badan bhi saath herket kare to iss falsafe ko daleel se wazeh karen. Mazeed yeh bhi bata dain k ager RafaYaden aise kia jae k haath uthae jaen aur phir sakoon hone per Rakoo k liye jhuka jae to phir to aap ka falsafa bhi fail ho jae ga.

 

Phir aap ka yeh falsafa iss liye bhi fail hai k kissi aik sahabi ne bhi iss hadees se yeh matlab akhez nahin kia. Unn se badastoor RafaYaden kerna sabit hain Nabi s.a.w. ke baad bhi jis k beshumaar dalael main apne tafseeli mazmoon main de aaya hoon. Doosra Muslim ki jo doosri hadees hai uss main saaf wazahet hai k yeh salam k waqat hath ka ishara tha jisse dekh ker aap ne shumes ghore ki tashbeeh di. Khud insaaf se bataie kia uss halat main aap ka yeh man'gharrat falsafa chal sakta hai.

Aema Hadees Imam Bukhari, Imam Navavi, Hafiz Ibn-e-Hajer Usqulani jaise mutqadimeen muhadiseen ne iss per sakhet jirah ker rakhi hai jo iss hadees se Rakoo wale RafaYaden ki daleel leta hai.

 

Lahaza aap se guzarish hai k apne istidlal ko dalael se muratib karen werna ham aap ki man'maani tehreef aur tashreeh manane ke mukalif nahin. Allah samajhne ki tofeeq de, Aameen.

 

Parrhne walon se guzarish hai k mere tafseeli mazmoon main iss hadees ka jo tafseeli jawab kai aik dalael k saath dia gaya hai aur sabit kia gaya hai k iss hadees ka taluq Rakoo wale RafaYaden k saath hergiz nahin bal'k salam k waqat k saath hai ko zaroor molahiza karen. Phir khud faisla karen k kia itne dalael k baad bhi aise kissi man'gharrat falsafe ki gunjaesh baqi rehti hai.

http://www.islamimehfil.info/index.php?sho...ic=3542&hl=

[Khalil Rana]

[Khalil Rana]

[Mawahid]

 

Rana sahib hamara muaqqif to ye hai k Rafa Yadein Nabi (S.A.W) ne tamam umer kia, ap agar ye kehtey hein k eik khaas waqt tak kia aur baad mein mansookh ho gya to iss per koi 1 Hadees jis mein naskh ka hukam maujood ho wo bata dijiye, aur jais ak aap kehtey hein k 1 khaas waqt tak Rafa Yadein hua to bara-e-meharbani wo waqt aur us se mutaliq Hadees paish kar dijiye.

[Qadri Sultani]

Mawahid Sb aap koi aisi marfoo Hadees Sharif paish karain jis say yeh sabit ho keh Huzoor e Aqdas(saw) nay Rafa Yadain tarak na farmaya ho....

[Mawahid]

Mawahid Sb aap koi aisi marfoo Hadees Sharif paish karain jis say yeh sabit ho keh Huzoor e Aqdas(saw) nay Rafa Yadain tarak na farmaya ho....

 

 

AoA,

janab-e-mann abhi ap ki khawahish k mutabiq HADEES-E-PAK bhaij raha hoon. iss k mutabiq NABI (S.A.W) se rafa yadein hamesha k liye sabit hai. saboot mil jane k baad ab ap ko abhi se NABI-E-PAK (S.A.W) ki iss meethi meethi sunnat ko apna lena chahiye.

 

BUKHARI SHARIF H #736 - حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ مُقَاتِلٍ قَالَ أَخْبَرَنَا عَبْدُ اللَّهِ قَالَ أَخْبَرَنَا يُونُسُ عَنِ الزُّهْرِىِّ أَخْبَرَنِى سَالِمُ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ عُمَرَ رضى الله عنهما قَالَ رَأَيْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ - صلى الله عليه وسلم - إِذَا قَامَ فِى الصَّلاَةِ رَفَعَ يَدَيْهِ حَتَّى يَكُونَا حَذْوَ مَنْكِبَيْهِ ، وَكَانَ يَفْعَلُ ذَلِكَ حِينَ يُكَبِّرُ لِلرُّكُوعِ ، وَيَفْعَلُ ذَلِكَ إِذَا رَفَعَ رَأْسَهُ مِنَ الرُّكُوعِ وَيَقُولُ « سَمِعَ اللَّهُ لِمَنْ حَمِدَهُ » . وَلاَ يَفْعَلُ ذَلِكَ فِى السُّجُودِ . أطرافه 735 ، 738 ، 739

 

Edited 29 ستمبر 2010 by Mawahid

[Qadri Sultani]

Janab Mawahid Sb kya aap ko MARFOO HADEES k meaning aatay hain???

[Mawahid]

Janab Mawahid Sb kya aap ko MARFOO HADEES k meaning aatay hain???

 

 

Assalam'o'Alaikum, Chishti sahib ALLAH k fazal se mujhey to MARFOO HADEES k meanings bohat achi tarah se aatey hein. agar ap k ilm mein nahi hein to mein bhai k ilm mein izafey k liye MARFOO HADEES ka matlab bata sakta hoon.

[Qadri Sultani]

Assalam'o'Alaikum, Chishti sahib ALLAH k fazal se mujhey to MARFOO HADEES k meanings bohat achi tarah se aatey hein. agar ap k ilm mein nahi hein to mein bhai k ilm mein izafey k liye MARFOO HADEES ka matlab bata sakta hoon.

G inttizar hay aap k jwab ka....

[Sag e Madinah]

وَلاَ يَفْعَلُ ذَلِكَ فِى السُّجُودِ .

Jo Hadees Sharif Wahhabi nay paish ke hay is main yeh zikar hay keh Sajood k darmyan Rafa Yadain nahi kartay thay,laikan wahhabi tu Sajood k darmyan b kartay hain Rafa Yadain....Wahhabi g zara aankhain khol k parho

[RazaviTiger]

Bahi aik bat to muje ya sub kuch parne ka bad samj aya gaye ha ka Sunni Ulamh theik he kathe hain ka jahan Akal hoti ha wahbi nahi hota aur jahan whabi hota ha akal nahi hoti ya bewkoof apni gustakioun ko chupane ka laye logoun ko in faur masail main uljate rahte hain .ALLAH sa dua ha ka in gustakoun sa sub mislimanoun ka iman bechaye Ameeen.

وَلاَ يَفْعَلُ ذَلِكَ فِى السُّجُودِ .

Jo Hadees Sharif Wahhabi nay paish ke hay is main yeh zikar hay keh Sajood k darmyan Rafa Yadain nahi kartay thay,laikan wahhabi tu Sajood k darmyan b kartay hain Rafa Yadain....Wahhabi g zara aankhain khol k parho