Invocation Towards The Deceased - فوت شدگان سے استمداد

[mu6sman]

[font="Tahoma"][size="3"]al-salaamu 'alaykum wa rahmatullah!

This post, my first at this forum, might arose some dissenting glances and raise a few eye-brows here, though I'll be more than glad to welcome that, and respond to any kind of criticism. I expect you will read this post thoroughly with open mindedness and derive the most logical conclusion. It deals with a contentious issue ever raging amongst us, that of [b]invoking the deceased[/b]. Herein, evidences against invoking the dead has bees put forward, though I haven't gone in any detailed explanations thereof. despite that, arguments are succinct that aid an easier reading. For those who like it's content and would want to show their appreciation, I'd request them not to just say it out in words on this forum, but practically show regard by taking printouts of these pages and distribute them among those in need lost in ignorance. As for the disagrees, take the pain to spell out your objection and reason behind it. Abstain from maligning and abuse of any kind that befits not character of a muslim. Keep your objection (if any) in a civilized muslim manner and remember that our primary aim to please Allaah Almighty and the way towards gaining His pleasure is by sincere willingness to gain knowledge and uphold truth when it arrives, whether it conforms or opposes our desires.

May Allaah make this prosperous for all of us, ameen!
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[Ya Mohammadah]

al-salaamu 'alaykum wa rahmatullah!

Courtesy Khalil Rana Sahab

[mu6sman]

Alhamdulillah, wa'l-salaatu wa'l-salaam 'alaa Rasoolillah!

 

 

al-Salamu 'alaikum!

 

 

Brother, you've wasted no time to expel (خارج) me from Islam, simply because I have a different point of view and see things different than you, whereas I, on the other hand, have been calling you 'brothers'. The Prophet Muhammad came to convert people to Islam, and it's sad to see that we muslims, contrastingly, are hell bent on making kafirs out of muslims (shame on us!). Haven't you heard the Prophetic saying: When a man calls his brother an unbeliever, it returns (at least) to one of them. [Muslim, 116] How can you be so casual in declaring kufr upon fellow muslims when it can easily turn towards you? Even if lets suppose you're point of view is correct, does that give you licence to make anyone who conforms not your view a kafir? Are you the judge or is He Allaah? Such behavior has been the reason for our downfall as a community and has allowed for non-muslims to come and overtake our properties and our lands, and we're more concerned with making more and more kafirs. Does that help Islam one bit? Will such an act make Allaah happy and satisfied with you. Nay, I assure you!

 

 

You've attempted to answer my post by trying to show the word dua (دعا) doesn't always mean invocation and then you go on to present some translations of your liking to 'prove' your point, how convenient. I believe you didn't read my post for if you had done so you wouldn't be suffering from this problem. Not only did you not read my post, but obviously you haven't even read some of your own books, namely, the exegesis on Kanzu'l-Iman written by Na'eem al-Din Muradabadi, who mentioned the hadeeth, as I did, which describes dua (دعا) as an act of worship (عبادہ) [al-Fatihah, 4], nay; the essence thereof.

 

 

Here are some random translations of Surah Jinn, 18, for your benefit;

 

 

Sahih International

And [He revealed] that the masjids are for Allah , so do not invoke with Allah anyone.

 

Muhsin Khan

And the mosques are for Allah (Alone), so invoke not anyone along with Allah.

 

Pickthall

And the places of worship are only for Allah, so pray not unto anyone along with Allah.

 

Shakir

And that the mosques are Allah's, therefore call not upon any one with Allah:

 

Dr. Ghali

And that the mosques belong to Allah; so do not invoke, along with Allah, anyone.

 

 

These are recognized english translations, I have Urdu translations as well (if you need) but even if someone translates 'dua' as 'worship' I have no problem with that too, since that would also negate your view that dua (worship) can be made to others with Allaah for it would be an act of worship directed to others which is Shirk.

 

 

I explained that every prayer is not worship, only the prayer made to some super-natural or non-present being with the belief such and such has super-natural powers to heal, provide, safeguard, relieve, etc is, otherwise, common invokes we call each other thereby is not worship and subsequent Shirk, again you should have read my post. I explained both categories of prayer (دعا) but you failed to read through it, maybe you weren't open minded enough to do so. Now what you have to do is show that dua to others, the way we beseech Allaah, isn't an act of worship.

 

 

You never touched upon anything I mentioned in my post and instead copy\pasted your way to exemption.

 

 

You never should how could beseeching God alone be anything but a praiseworthy act.

 

 

If dua is something most desired my Allaah, would He then like it if we share it with others?

 

 

You didn't answer my question that: کیا جسکی رسائی شہنشاہ تک ہو وہ چیلوں کے چکر کاٹے گا؟

 

 

Answer me: کیا اگر کوئی شخص مَر چکا ہو تو اسے پکارنا جہل اور بیوقوفی نہیں؟

 

 

Answer me: اگر مسلمان کا "المدد یا غوثِ اعظم!" کہنا ٹھیک ہے تو مشرک کے "یغوث المدد" میں کیا حرج ہے؟

 

 

Do you say in opposition to the Qur'an that: Christ[p] capable of providing aid and relieving hardship for Christians?

 

 

Answer me: Is Allaah not sufficient for you that you always need ask others besides Him?

 

 

Is Allaah so distant from you that you can't reach Him, except thru intermediaries? If so then whats the difference between you and pagans of old and new?

 

 

Even Mushrikeen would call upon Allaah alone in open waters, and abandon their awliya, why must you call upon others everywhere, including the seas of Allaah?

 

 

You made a grave error thinking the polytheists worshipped idols in stead of Allaah Ta'aala. The Mushrikeen believed in Allaah as their Sole Providence and the Qur'an is amply evident for it, their error was that they worshipped others partners (Ilah الہ means one that is worshipped, not Rabb or Khaliq) so that it may take them closer to Allaah. so they worshipped others to come closer to Allaah, whereas, you guys too, ignorantly I might add, pray (worship) others to acquire closeness with Allaah. The difference is they new their prayers were worship, whereas, you are un-aware of this fact.

 

 

I'd also like to say that people, we need to change our way of thinking and be more open-hearted, and open-minded towards other views. No one group can claim to have perfection, and we need be open when knowledge comes to inspect it, and if it be found reasonable and conforming Divine commandments, it is our duty to accept the fact whether it pleases us or is detestable, so long as it's correct. For how much longer shall we confine ourselves to a limited frame of thought fashioned by people who have long gone and won't be asked of what we did. We're responsible for what we choose, and no one else is coming and who has gone will save us if we choose falsehood and ignorance over plain logic and truth (حق).

 

 

May Allaah guide us all, ameen!

[mu6sman]

al-Salaamu 'alaykum!

 

I apologize if I any of you, in my previous post, found my remarks harsh. It just frustrates and infuriates me to see muslims, to whom Allaah Ta'aala addresses as follows; O ye who believe! if any from among you turn back from his Faith, soon will Allah produce a people whom He will love as they will love Him,- lowly with the believers, mighty against the rejecters, fighting in the way of Allah, and never afraid of the reproaches of such as find fault. That is the grace of Allah, which He will bestow on whom He pleaseth. And Allah encompasseth all, and He knoweth all things. [Al-Qur'an, 5.54] should expel each other from the fence of Islam. When Allaah states: O ye who believe! When ye go abroad in the cause of Allah, investigate carefully, and say not to any one who offers you a salutation: "Thou art none of a believer!" Coveting the perishable goods of this life: with Allah are profits and spoils abundant. Even thus were ye yourselves before, till Allah conferred on you His favours: Therefore carefully investigate. For Allah is well aware of all that ye do. [Al-Qur'an, 4.94] Whereas I came here not to create any rift between us, but try to achieve a commonality upon worship of the One Allaah. My niyah was very transparent in that I never called anyone a "murtad" or a "mushrik", rather I simply wanted people to be more aware of this other (my) view point which I feel is very strong and worthier to believe in. And If my investigation leads me or you to different or contradictory conclusions then; the rightful pattern of conduct as taught by our beloved Prophet would be; Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance. [Al-Qur'an, 16.125] Not go out of our ways to condemn and ridicule and call each other names, such behavior is non-tolerable even towards non-believers, leave aside people of faith. One of you should take this as a matter of self-esteem, it's not about our egos, it's about attaining the truth, and again if I any hurt anyone's feeling, let me other my sincere apologies, and I also pray Allaah to pardon our mistakes and protects us from indulging in ridiculing one another, or ever describing our bretheren with attrobutes they do not possess, for in such case, we'd be among the oppressors (ظالمون).

[mu6sman]

al-hamdulillah, wa'l-salaatu wa'l-salaam 'alaa rasoolillah!

Allaah Ta'aala describes for us in the Qur'an the correct manner of invoking Him, seek His aid and have prayers granted. He taught al-Fatihah to His slave and ordained its daily five time recital in salaah. In it we pray: Show us the straight way, the way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace... Foremost recipients of Allaah's grace and favor are His prophets[as], they being the cream of humankind, offer us in their life-style the best pattern of conduct to replicate. The words of prayer (دعا) used by prophets and awliya' as mentioned by Allaah in His book are purest and dearest to Him. These are words which He Himself taught them and Allaah, the Generous One, saved these prayers in His Book so that next generations may take heed therewith and call upon their Lord by them.

 

He, the Almighty narrates stories of His most noble servants, and mentions the prayer of Adam[p] and Eve[p] when they disobeyed their Lord as a result of which were taken out of paradise, they said: "Our Lord! We have wronged our own souls: If thou forgive us not and bestow not upon us Thy Mercy, we shall certainly be lost."

The prayer of Noah[p] when he saw his son drowning: "O my Lord! surely my son is of my family! and Thy promise is true, and Thou art the justest of Judges!"

 

The plea of Job[p] when overwhelmed with decease and afflictions: "Truly distress has seized me, but Thou art the Most Merciful of those that are merciful."

 

Discretion of Joseph[p] fearing shamefulness: "O my Lord! the prison is more to my liking than that to which they invite me: Unless Thou turn away their snare from me, I should (in my youthful folly) feel inclined towards them and join the ranks of the ignorant."

 

David[p] in battle against Goliath: "Our Lord! Pour out constancy on us and make our steps firm: Help us against those that reject faith."

 

Prayer of Moses[p] when he killed an innocent soul: "O my Lord! I have indeed wronged my soul! Do Thou then forgive me!"

Prayer of Zechariah[p] as he prayed for his heir: "O my Lord! infirm indeed are my bones, and the hair of my head doth glisten with grey: but never am I unblest, O my Lord, in my prayer to Thee! O my Lord! Grant unto me from Thee a progeny that is pure: for Thou art He that heareth prayer!"

Abraham[p], when he prayed for a son: "O my Lord! Grant me a righteous!"

Jesus[p], when he sought provision: "O Allaah our Lord! Send us from heaven a table set (with viands), that there may be for us - for the first and the last of us - a solemn festival and a sign from thee; and provide for our sustenance, for thou art the best Sustainer (of our needs)."

 

The Prophet on the dark day in Ta'if, when he was mocked, pelted with stones, forced to flee the city, and it seemed the whole world had turned against him;

"O Allaah! To You alone I make complaint of my helplessness, the paucity of my resources and my insignificance before mankind. You are the most Merciful of the mercifuls. You are the Rabb of the helpless and the weak, O Rabb of mine! Into whose hands would You abandon me: into the hands of an unsympathetic distant relative who would sullenly frown at me, or to the enemy who has been given control over my affairs? But if Your wrath does not fall on me, there is nothing for me to worry about. I seek protection in the light of Your Countenance, which illuminates the heavens and dispels darkness, and which controls all affairs in this world as well as in the Hereafter. May it never be that I should incur Your wrath, or that You should be wrathful to me. And there is no power nor resource, but Yours alone." In the fierce battle of Badr with a minute muslim army facing complete annihilation at the hands of Makkan associationists, the Prophet cried out to his lord : "O Allaah! Should this group be defeated today, You will no longer be worshipped."

Isn't this an example we all must follow?

 

Salam!

Edited 27 جولائی 2010 by mu6sman

[mu6sman]

al-Salamu 'alaykum!

 

 

قال النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم: "‏من مات وهو يدعو من دون الله ندا دخل النار."

 

عبد اللہ رضی اللہ عنہ نے کہا کہ نبی کریم صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم نے ایک بات ارشاد فرمائی اور میں ایک بات اور کہتا ہوں۔ حضور صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم نے فرمایا کہ جو شخص اس حالت میں مرا کہ اوروں کو اللہ کے مقابل پکارتا رہا وہ جہنم میں جائے گا، اور میں نے یو ں کہا کہ جو شخص اس حالت میں مرے کہ اللہ کے سوا کسی کو ند بنا کر نہ پکارے وہ جنت میں جائے گا۔

 

‏‏Narrated by 'Abdu'llah; The Prophet made a statement and I add another. The Prophet said: "Whoever dies while still invoking anything other than Allah as a rival, will enter Hell (Fire)." And I said: "Whoever dies without invoking anything as a rival to Allah, will enter Paradise."

 

[Related by Bukhari in Kitab al-Tafsir]

 

[Eccedentesiast]

al-Salamu 'alaykum!

 

 

قال النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم: "‏من مات وهو يدعو من دون الله ندا دخل النار."

 

عبد اللہ رضی اللہ عنہ نے کہا کہ نبی کریم صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم نے ایک بات ارشاد فرمائی اور میں ایک بات اور کہتا ہوں۔ حضور صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم نے فرمایا کہ جو شخص اس حالت میں مرا کہ اوروں کو اللہ کے مقابل پکارتا رہا وہ جہنم میں جائے گا، اور میں نے یو ں کہا کہ جو شخص اس حالت میں مرے کہ اللہ کے سوا کسی کو ند بنا کر نہ پکارے وہ جنت میں جائے گا۔

 

‏‏Narrated by 'Abdu'llah; The Prophet made a statement and I add another. The Prophet said: "Whoever dies while still invoking anything other than Allah as a rival, will enter Hell (Fire)." And I said: "Whoever dies without invoking anything as a rival to Allah, will enter Paradise."

 

[Related by Bukhari in Kitab al-Tafsir]

 

 

 

Jwab Aapki post main hi mojood hay , Nishandehi krdi gayi hay.

[mu6sman]

سلام، میرے بھائی اگر آپ نے قرآن پڑھا ہے تو بتائیں اللہ تعالٰی کو چھوڑ کر کسی اور کو پکارنا اللہ کا مقابل بنانا نہیں تو اور کیا ہے؟ اسی کو تو اسلام نے منع کیا ہے ورنہ مشرکین مکہ و حاضرہ بیچاروں کا کیا قصور؟

Edited 18 اگست 2010 by mu6sman

[Sybarite]

سلام، میرے بھائی اگر آپ نے قرآن پڑھا ہے تو بتائیں اللہ تعالٰی کو چھوڑ کر کسی اور کو پکارنا اللہ کا مقابل بنانا نہیں تو اور کیا ہے؟ اسی کو تو اسلام نے منع کیا ہے ورنہ مشرکین مکہ و حاضرہ بیچاروں کا کیا قصور؟

 

حضرت آپ تو صاحب کشف معلوم ہوتے ہیں کہ آپ کو ساری امت کی نیتوں کا معلوم ہے کہ سارے ہی اولیا اللہ کو اللہ کے مقابل سمجھ کر پکارتے ہیں۔ مشرکین کا تو قصور یہ تھا کہ وہ اللہ کے علاوہ دوسروں کو معبود سمجھ کر پکارتے تھے۔ مسلمانوں میں الحمد اللہ کسی جاہل سے جاہل بندے کا بھی یہ عقیدہ نہ ہوگا۔ سو تھوڑی شرم کیجیئے اور مشرکین کے عقائد کو امتِ مسلمہ پر زبردستی تھوپنے سے پرھیز کریں۔

 

اور آپ کی تسّلی کے لئے آپ وہابیوں میں مستند مفسر ابن کثیر کی تفسیر کا حوالہ پیشِ خدمت ہے۔ اب تو خیر سے وہابیوں نے اس تفسیر ابن کثیر کے بھی انگلش ورژن میں تحریف کرکے اس حدیث کو حذف کردیا ہے لیکن عربی نسخہ میں موجود ہے۔ سو اب یا تو ابن کثیر پر فتوٰی لے آئیے یا پھر خاموشی اختیار کریں۔

 

 

 

وقد ذكر جماعة منهم الشيخ أبو منصور الصباغ في كتابه الشامل الحكاية المشهورة عن العتبي قال : كنت جالسا عند قبر النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فجاء أعرابي فقال : السلام عليك يا رسول الله سمعت الله يقول " ولو أنهم إذ ظلموا أنفسهم جاءوك فاستغفروا الله واستغفر لهم الرسول لوجدوا الله توابا رحيما " وقد جئتك مستغفرا لذنبي مستشفعا بك إلى ربي ثم أنشأ يقول : يا خير من دفنت بالقاع أعظمه فطاب من طيبهن القاع والأكم نفسي الفداء لقبر أنت ساكنه فيه العفاف وفيه الجود والكرم ثم انصرف الأعرابي فغلبتني عيني فرأيت النبي صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم في النوم فقال : يا عتبي الحق الأعرابي فبشره أن الله قد غفر له " .

 

 

Translation: Many have stated this tradition. One of them is Abu Mansur al-Sabbagh (some manuscripts say Abu Nasr) who writes in his book Al-Shamil Al-Hikayat-ul-mashhurah that, according to ‘Utbi, once he was sitting beside the Prophet’s grave when a bedouin came and he said, “Peace be on you, O Allah’s Messenger. I have heard that Allah says: ‘(O beloved!) And if they had come to you, when they had wronged their souls, and asked forgiveness of Allah, and the Messenger also had asked forgiveness for them, they (on the basis of this means and intercession) would have surely found Allah the Granter of repentance, extremely Merciful.’ I have come to you, asking forgiveness for my sins and I make you as my intermediary before my Lord and I have come to you for this purpose.” Then he recited these verses: “O, the most exalted among the buried people who improved the worth of the plains and the hillocks! May I sacrifice my life for this grave which is made radiant by you, (the Prophet,) the one who is (an embodiment) of mercy and forgiveness.” Then the bedouin went away and I fell asleep. In my dream I saw the Holy Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him). He said to me: O ‘Utbi, the bedouin is right, go and give him the good news that Allah has forgiven his sins.

(Ibn Kathir, Tafsir-ul-Qur'an al-azim Volume 004, Page No. 140, Under the Verse 4:64)

[mu6sman]

salam,

 

I think i've been misunderstood, never do I allow anyone to attribute fellow muslims with 'kufr' or 'shirk', there's a vast difference between shirk of ancient Arabians and of nowadays. Back then people knew exactly what they were doing, committing 'shirk' but nowadays knowledge of tawhid is at a premium. Besides other variations, there still is similarity and that is what I warn against, only a warning, nothing more, nothing personal.

 

Salam!

[Sybarite]

salam,

 

I think i've been misunderstood, never do I allow anyone to attribute fellow muslims with 'kufr' or 'shirk', there's a vast difference between shirk of ancient Arabians and of nowadays. Back then people knew exactly what they were doing, committing 'shirk' but nowadays knowledge of tawhid is at a premium. Besides other variations, there still is similarity and that is what I warn against, only a warning, nothing more, nothing personal.

 

Salam!

 

Are you claiming that all those who believe in invocation towards the deceased don't even know what they believe or doing but you know what you believe in? I quoted Ibn Kathir who quoted a hadith which affirms invocation towards deceased. Whats you verdict on Ibn Kathir then? You put all your efforts to denounce the aqeeda of Ahle'Sunnah and yet you don't bother to say a word on Ibn Kathir who affirms the same belief.