MuhammedAli

Post: #18 You questioned: "Did the Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) approve of the hearing and seeing type of witnessing if not negate it?" No Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) did not explicitly state that he will be hearing seeing type of witness in that Tafsir. And why are you even asking me this question any way? Did I claim that this Tafsir of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) refutes those who say Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) is not Hazir Nazir? You employed the Tafsir issue: "Moreover our Holy Prophet Sallallaho Alayhi Wasallam has himself explained the verse 143 of Surah Baqara hence presenting another Tafseer , that goes totally against it is unacceptable." to argue that a Tafsir of verse which states Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) is Hadhir Nadhir/hearing seeing type of witness is unacceptable. It can only be unacceptable to a Muslim when the Tafsir we the Muslims present contradicts what Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) interpreted. When i questioned: "Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) gave interpretation of the verse but did he negate the hearing and seeing type of witnessing?" Purpose was that you will realize that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) has not negated the hearing seeing type of witnessing. Which you know that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) has not negated this. So how can you reject the Tafsir of Muslims when it does not contradict what Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) has stated. How can a Tafsir of Quran which is supported by Quran be unacceptable to you when it is not in contradicting what Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) stated? You don't need to question me if Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) proved hearing seeing type of witness from this tafsir because I didnt present it has evidence to prove that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) is seeing hearing type of witness. I questioned you to establish the reality of the meaning of verse, to prove to you that you have rejected Prophet being Hadhir Nadhir based on evidence which does not contradict or refute Hadhir Nadhir. Tafsir of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) would only refute Hadhir Nadhir if he stated he is not hearing seeing type of witness. Nature of Quran is Jawami Al Kalim meaning it is written short but has widest meanings: "I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "I have been sent with Jawami al-Kalim, and I was made victorious with awe (caste into the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the earth were brought to me and were put in my hand." Muhammad said, Jawami'-al-Kalim means that Allah expresses in one or two statements or thereabouts the numerous matters that used to be written in the books revealed before (the coming of) the Prophet." [Ref: Bukhari, B87, H141] Interpreting verses of Quran in light of other verses is not going against the interpretation of Quran. But interpreting verses of Quran in light of Quran is according to Jawami al Kalim nature of Quran. Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) only gave one interpretation from Quran from the wide meanings he explained one. We cannot limit restrict to one meaning which Prophet gave. The Rawafiz - Shia they take the ahadith of cloak in whch Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) covered Hadhrat Ali, Fatimah, Hassan, Hussain (Allah be pleased with all of them) and recited the verse of tatheer. They say on basis of this that these people were the intended members of Ahli bayt and not wives of RasoolAllah (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam). To prove to them that wives of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) are also Ahli Bayt what do you and what do we the Muslims do? We go back to Quran and not restrict our selves to hadith only. We quote the entire verse 33:33 and say wives are also Ahli Bayt. Just to refute the creed of Muslims you have adopted the methodology of Rawafiz. That you want to stick to hadith only and ignore the book of Allah. Your question: "How does the understanding that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) was sent as a hearing seeing type of witness go in favour of the Tafsir which Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) gave?" Who said it goes in favour and who presented it as evidence to prove Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) is a hearng seeing type of witness? No one, then why are you questioning me. I questioned you to establish your fault because you was using this Tafsir to refute seeing hearing type of witnessing of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) saying that any tafsir other then the one in hadith is against Prophet's (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) tafsir. My objective was to establish the Tafsir does not refute our aqeedah hence why would you consider anything unacceptable when it does not contradict Prophetic Tafsir. I established that Quran has many meanings a verse can be interpreted to mean many things. If our tafsir contradicts what Prophet said then you have a point but if it doesnt and which it doesnt contradict then how can you say aqeeday of hazir nazir is unacceptable. You wrote: "I mean how can you deduce the meaning of Hazir o Nazir for the word "Shahid" from Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam')'s own Tafsir when he did not give such a meaning himself?" Here pay attention let me establish something for you. Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) states in Quran: “One day We shall raise from all Peoples a witness against them, from amongst themselves: and We shall bring you as a witness against these (people): and We have sent down to thee the Book explaining all things, a Guide, a Mercy, and Glad Tidings to Muslims.” [Ref: 16:89] Because Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) will be bearing witness on the day of judgment, Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) has sent him to earth to be a witness with eyes, and ears, hearing and seeing: "O Prophet! Truly We have sent you as a Witness, a Bearer of Glad Tidings, and Warner." [Ref: 33:45] "We have sent to you an apostle to be a witness concerning you, even as We sent an apostle to Pharaoh." [Ref: 73:15] Or are you going to argue Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) was sent as a witness without eyes, ears and without the ability to hear and see? O now you can interrogate me how these two verses mean seeing hearing type of witness. Now because he was sent as a WITNESS Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) questions Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) about what the angles are arguing about. And Allah the all knower didnt ask because Allah didnt know, Allah asked for a purpose. Prophet said he doesnt know what they are arguing about. The rest read the hadith: Narrated AbdurRahman ibn A'ish: Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: I saw my Lord, the Exalted and Glorious in the most beautiful form. He said: What do the Angels in the presence of Allah contend about? I said: Thou art the most aware of it. He then placed HIS PALM between my shoulders and I felt its coldness in my chest and I came to know what was in the Heavens and the Earth. He recited: 'Thus did we show Ibrahim the kingdom of the Heavens and the Earth and it was so that he might have certainty.' (6:75)" [Ref: Tirimdhi, Vol 5, Hadith No. 3245, Tafsir Surah S'ad] "[...] Then I saw Him put his palms between my shoulder blades till I felt the coldness of his fingers between the two sides of my chest. Then everything was illuminated for me and I recognized everything. He said: Muhammad! I said: At Thy service, my Lord. He said: What do these high angels contend about? I said: In regard to expiations. He said: What are these? [...]" [Ref: Tirimdhi, Vol 5, Hadith No. 3246, Tafsir Surah S'ad] Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) granted all the knowledge in earth and universe to Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) in an instant and then asked again but this time he knew all: He (i.e. Allah) said: Muhammad! I said: At Thy service, my Lord. He said: What do these high angels contend about? I said: In regard to expiations. He said: What are these? I said: Going on foot to join congregational prayers, sitting in the mosques after the prayers, performing ablution well despite difficulties. He again said: Then what do they contend? I said: In regard to the ranks. He said: What are these? I said: Providing of food, speaking gently, observing the prayer when the people are asleep. He again said to me: Beg (Your Lord) and say: O Allah, I beg of Thee (power) to do good deeds, ..." [Ref: Tirimdhi, Vol 5, Hadith No. 3246, Tafsir Surah S'ad] Mukhtasar, Prophet has been sent as a witness to earth and he has been made witness to all the events in an instant. You wrote: "I mean how can you deduce the meaning of Hazir o Nazir for the word "Shahid" from Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam')'s own Tafsir when he did not give such a meaning himself?" To answer you question. Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) has stated: "O Prophet! Truly We have sent you as a Witness, a Bearer of Glad Tidings, and Warner." [Ref: 33:45] "We have sent to you an apostle to be a witness concerning you, even as We sent an apostle to Pharaoh." [Ref: 73:15] First of all lets be logical and not closed and narrow minded. Lets take Shahid in meaning of Witness. A witness must possess atleast two qualities and a kamil will have three essential qualities. A witness must be hazir/present and must be able to see/nazir the events he is witness on. You are witness to the discussion we are having on IslamiMehfil because you are Hazir and because you are Nazir. If you was not Hazir as a creation as a human/Jinn/animal/insect/bird/ etc... that will mean you don't exist. Therefore two most essential qualities for a WITNESS are being HAZIR and NAZIR. In dua of Janaza the word Shahid has been used to mean opposite of ghayb - present. Dua begins, Allahum maghfirli hayyitina wa mayyitina wa shahidina wa ghaybina wa sagheerina wa kabeerina ... which means Allah forigve our alive and dead and present and absent and young and old, those who are males and females. Note here the opposite are mentioned, opposite of dead is alive, opposite of young is old, opposite of male is female, opposite of ghayb (i.e. absent) is present (i.e. Shahid). And note the word Shahid was used for the living who are present in the funeral and ghayb for those who are not. Now tell me when Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) bare witness in defence of the Ambiyah will he not be present and will he not be seeing/hearing? From the Tafsir which he gave isn't it obvious that he has to be present and hearing/seeing/speaking/understanding/knowing on the day of judgment and as result of these he will testify on the day of judgment. You claimed to have study concept of Hazir Nazir and fact is you don't know head or tail of the issue. You don't know with what part of Hazir Nazir you should agree or what you should disagree with. Pay attention to this, Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) said he will bare witness on the day of judgment. This means he will be Hazir on the day of judgment and seeing, hearing, talking, speaking, answering, understanding, and defending the Prophets. Every creation which is Shahid must also be HAZIR in the creation in some form. Metaphorically speaking you are barking up the wrong tree. The issue of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) in aakhirah being Hazir is not even contented by the foolish I think you are pretty reasonablly educated so why would you contend this beats me. I am ex-Deobandi my advice to you is first learn the real issue of IKHTILAF and then come to argue over it. You wrote: "Moreover the other hadith which i have quoted substantiates my proof of using the word, "Shahid" to mean Witness based on the previous knowledge that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) had received through revelation and not "Actual" witnessing in the sense that you refer to. Please read the following hadith once again." It doesnt really matter if you take the word to mean Shahid or Hazir or Hazir/Nazir. The point is it can be easily established and no reasonable or rational or educated can contend with it. Shahid = Witness and witness has to be HAZIR/NAZIR. You don't even know this basic aspect and you earlier claimed that you have studied the subject. Witnessing is dependant upon two factors either you hear or you see then you can bear witness. Here the verse attests to witnessing after seeing: "He said: "It was she that sought to seduce me - from my (true) self. "And one of her household saw (this) and bore witness, (thus):- "If it be that his shirt is rent from the front, then is her tale true, and he is a liar!" [Ref: 12:26] And seeing of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) is stated: And say: "Do deeds! Allah will see your deeds, and (so will) his Messenger and the believers. And you will be brought back to the All-Knower of the unseen and the seen. Then He will inform you of what you used to do." [Ref: 9:105] There are two possible things which you may have alluded to one, angels saying Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam): "Don't you know what they did after you!" and this issue has thoroughly answered and explained in this dicussion: http://www.islamimehfil.com/topic/19739-hadhir-nadhir-objection/ The other is the issue of Prophet Isa alayhis salaam. Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) saying that he will say like Prophet Isa (alayhis slaam) will say. And I will explain this issue in detail because this has not been dicussed. Question is why did Prophet Isa (alayhis salaam) will say what is recorded in Hadith. When Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) will ask the Prophets about what response they recieved from their Ummats the Prophets will say they have no knowledge: "[be warned of] the Day when Allah will assemble the messengers and say, "What was the response you received?" They will say, "We have no knowledge. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen" [Ref: 5:109] Question is why would the Prophets will when that they have no knowledge when they know what happened. All the Prophets will know exactly how their nations replied to them but on the day of judgment they will say THEY HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE. Prophet Isa (alayhis salaam) when he comes back the second time he will know exactly what his Ummah did after him. He will read the Quran and he will learn that people have made him into a god and a son of god. Yet on the day of judgment all the Prophets will say we have no knowledg. Will they be lieing to Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala)? They will deny their own knowledge due to humility. They know exactly what happened but the one asking is Allah the Rabb of Alameen, the Knower of Ghayb and the Shahada, therefore they in humility and in submission and in respect and honor of Allah will say o Allah we have no knowledge you o Allah know everything you are the knower of Ghayb. It is established that Prophets were not lieing but they were being humble and respectful to Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) by denying their own knowledge. We will come back to this topic of saying of Isa (alayhis salaam) and Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam). Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) is reported to have said that deeds of believers are presented to him: My life is a great good for you in whom you talk (to me) and we talk to you, and my demise is also a great good for you (because) your deeds will be presented to me. If they are good, I will praise Allah, and if they are bad, I will ask Allah’s forgiveness for you. [Ref:Narrated by Ibn Hajar ‘Asqalani, through Harith in his al-Matalib-ul-‘aliyah, 4: 22-3 # 3853] Bakr bin ‘Abdullah (رضي الله عنه) also reported that the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said: My life is a great good for you in whom you talk (to me) and you are responded. And when I will die my demise will be a great good for you. Your deeds will be presented to me, if I see goodness, I will praise Allah, and if I see wrongs, I will ask Allah’s forgiveness for you." [Ref: Ibn Sa‘d, at-Tabaqat-ul-kubra (2: 194); ‘Ali bin Abu Bakr Haythami related in Majma‘-uz-zawa’id (9:24)] In addition to this the already quoted ahadith establish Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) was shown everything: "Narrated AbdurRahman ibn A'ish: Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: I saw my Lord, the Exalted and Glorious in the most beautiful form. He said: What do the Angels in the presence of Allah contend about? I said: Thou art the most aware of it. He then placed HIS PALM between my shoulders and I felt its coldness in my chest and I came to know what was in the Heavens and the Earth. He recited: 'Thus did we show Ibrahim the kingdom of the Heavens and the Earth and it was so that he might have certainty.' (6:75)" [Ref: Tirimdhi, Vol 5, Hadith No. 3245, Tafsir Surah S'ad] "[...] Then I saw Him put his palms between my shoulder blades till I felt the coldness of his fingers between the two sides of my chest. Then everything was illuminated for me and I recognized everything. He said: Muhammad! I said: At Thy service, my Lord. He said: What do these high angels contend about? I said: In regard to expiations. He said: What are these? [...]" [Ref: Tirimdhi, Vol 5, Hadith No. 3246, Tafsir Surah S'ad] Now when it is established that deeds are presented to Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) therefore he would indeed know what has happened after him. And he also was given the power to see everything as the ahadit of Tirmadhi indicate. Also Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) seeing the deeds of people is proven from these two verses "O Prophet! Truly We have sent you as a Witness, a Bearer of Glad Tidings, and Warner." [Ref: 33:45] "We have sent to you an apostle to be a witness concerning you, even as We sent an apostle to Pharaoh." [Ref: 73:15] These two verses prove that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) was sent as a witness to see/hear about the deeds which he will bear witness about. With all this evidence now we go back to hadith in which Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) will say like Prophet Isa (alayhis salaam): "Narrated Ibn Abbas: The Prophet said, "You will be gathered (on the Day of Judgment), bare-footed, naked and not circumcised." He then recited:--'As We began the first creation, We, shall repeat it: A Promise We have undertaken: Truly we shall do it.' (21:104) He added, "The first to be dressed on the Day of Resurrection, will be Abraham, and some of my companions will be taken towards the left side (i.e. to the (Hell) Fire), and I will say: 'My companions! My companions!' It will be said: 'They renegade from Islam after you left them.' Then I will say as the Pious slave of Allah (i.e. Jesus) said. 'And I was a witness Over them while I dwelt amongst them. When You took me up You were the Watcher over them, And You are a witness to all things. If You punish them. They are Your slaves And if You forgive them, Verily you, only You are the All-Mighty, the All-Wise." (5.120-121) [Ref: Bukhari, B55, H568] "Narrted Ibn Abbas: Allah's Apostle said, "You will be resurrected (and assembled) bare-footed, naked and uncircumcised." The Prophet then recited the Divine Verse:-- "As We began the first creation, We shall repeat it: A promise We have undertaken. Truly we shall do it." (21.104) He added, "The first to be dressed will be Abraham. Then some of my companions will take to the right and to the left. I will say: 'My companions! 'It will be said, 'They had been renegades since you left them.' I will then say what the Pious Slave Jesus, the son of Mary said: 'And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them; when You did take me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a witness to all things. If You punish them, they are Your slaves, and if you forgive them, You, only You are the All-Mighty the All-Wise.' " (5.117-118) Narrated Quaggas, "Those were the apostates who renegade from Islam during the Caliphate of Abu Bakr who fought them." [Ref: Bukhari, B55, H656] It is clearly establish that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) is witness upon the actions and deeds of people but the two ahadith prove contrary to the established fact. So is Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) lieing about being shown everything and deeds being presented to him and did Allah die about sendin Prophet has a witness? Answer is emphatic no, all of these facts are true and fundamental part of aqeedah of Muslims and we the Muslims make no Taweel of fundamental aqeedah based on circumstantial or implicit evidence. Just as we the Muslims will not accept Allah being Trinity on basis of plurals such as We, Us, Our which are found in Quran and used by Allah for himself. Point is here Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) will be using the words of Prophet Isa (alayhis salaam) while adopting humility and submissiveness of Hadhrat Isa (alayhis salaam). Here he will be immitating the humility and humility and the words will not indicate his reality. If one argues the word will indicate the reality of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) then my argument is was Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) raised like Prophet Isa (alayhis salaam)? Isa (alayhis salaam) was taken up this is why he will say: "... when you did take me up you were the witness ..." but what about Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam)? Was he taken up and will he return like Isa (alayhis salaam)? Point here is that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) will be emulating a Sunnah of Nabi Isa (alayhis salaam) like we the Muslims emulate the Sunnah of Ibrahim (alayhis salaam). Like we emulate the Sunnah of Hajirah (alayhis salaam) the mother of Ishmaeel (alayhis salaam) by running on the two mountains doing Sai on the Hajj. Like we emulate her Sunnah and stone the Jamras during Hajj. These actions in reality are of other people and they have no real connection with us nor there is actual need to stone or do these things apart from symbolical and worship perspective in our Sharia. We just emulate the actions because we are instructed to. Similarly Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) will emulate the SUNNAH OF PROPHET ISA (ALAYHIS SALAAM) FOR THE PURPOSE OF SHOWING HUMILITY TO ALLAH (SUBHANAHU WA TA'ALA) while in reality the words will have no connection with his own actual state. You may say, ARE YOU SAYING PROPHET WILL TELL A LIE? I say didn't the Quran say when Allah asked the Prophets how the Ummats recieved them and they will all say we have no knowledge. Will they then be lieing? Nope, humility and I say Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) show humility and respect by adopting the Sunnah of Prophet Isa (alayhis salaam). [To Be Continued ...]

Mr Haq3909 Did Not Format His Response Properly Hence To Make It Easier For The Readers To Distinguish Between What I Wrote And He Wrote I Formatted It On His Behalf. Post: #16 Did the Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) approve of the hearing and seeing type of witnessing if not negate it? How does the understanding that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) was sent as a hearing seeing type of witness go in favour of the Tafsir which Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) gave? I mean how can you deduce the meaning of Hazir o Nazir for the word "Shahid" from Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam')'s own Tafsir when he did not give such a meaning himself?Moreover the other hadith which i have quoted substantiates my proof of using the word, "Shahid" to mean Witness based on the previous knowledge that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) had received through revelation and not "Actual" witnessing in the sense that you refer to. Please read the following hadith once again. Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 76, Number 533 : Narrated by Ibn 'Abbas: The Prophet stood up among us and addressed (saying) "You will be gathered, barefooted, naked, and uncircumcised (as Allah says): 'As We began the first creation, We shall repeat it..' (21.104) And the first human being to be dressed on the Day of Resurrection will be (the Prophet) Abraham Al-Khalil. Then will be brought some men of my followers who will be taken towards the left (i.e., to the Fire), and I will say: 'O Lord! My companions whereupon Allah will say: you do not know what they did after you left them. I will then say as the pious slave, Jesus said, And I was witness over them while I dwelt amongst them...(up to) ...the All-Wise.' (5.117-118). The narrator added: Then it will be said that those people (relegated from Islam, that is) kept on turning on their heels (deserted Islam). Moreover can you Quote me any major Tafseers which take the meaning of "Shahid" used in the above verses in the Hazir o Nazir sense.From most of the Tafseers which i have come across , all take the meaning of Shahid in the sense which i have stated.You need to produce strong proof to show that, Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) stating that people will bear witness in defence of Prophets and he will bare witness upon the people is ACTUALLY the hearing seeing type of witness and NOT the witness based on Previous Knowledge and the news that He (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) had received from the Holy Quran(i.e. the News that Allah Ta'ala has already foretold that the Prophets Alayhi Salam had indeed convyed the messages.) I remember the same type of anaology was first put up by Mufti Ahmed Yar Khan Naeemi in His Ja Alhaq and similarly by Molvi Mohammad Umar Acharvi Sahab in his Miqiyas E Hanafiyat a long time ago and you seem to follow in their footsteps.However, what you and they don't realise is that anaology cannot be used in matters of aqeedah.Maklook ko Khaliq bay bilkul bhi Qiyas nahi kiya jasakta.It is here where Shirk starts to pour in.Remember that matters related to aqeedah cannot be treated using anaology , similitudes or parables.Textual Proof and Clear evidence is a must.Now coming back to the point which you raised : Does every question indicate that one needs to gain knowledge? When Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) asked Musa (alayhis salaam) what do you have in your hand and he replied a staff. First of all every Intellectual and Just Muslim has no doubt regarding Allah Ta'ala that He is always looking at everything and He is the All-Knower of Everything .[He knows what is in the heavens and on earth, and He knows what you conceal and what you reveal. And Allah Ta'ala is the All-Knower of what is in the breasts (of men).(Surah Al-Taghabun, 64: 4)]. Hence, when Allah Ta'ala Asks/Inquires about something , then it is definitely based on Hikmah(Wisdom) as opposed to the Prophets Alayhim Sallato Wasallam and Auliya Karam(Rehma Ulla) , regarding whome our aqeeda is that they are NOT ALIM UL GHAYB and hence they do not know in advance. However, when it is established through incisive proof that the answer to a Question that they inquired/asked about was already known to them in advance , then ONLY that particular question will be based on Hikmah and not generally all questions.Know I request to you to show me a Saheeh and Explicit Hadeeth in which Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) asked a question related to a Non-Shariah matter and he already knew the answer to it as opposed to Allah Ta'ala who already knows everything in advance.However need not to but I will still pose a hadith from which it is clearly proven that Allah Ta'ala alreadys knows in advance about something which He asks about. angels.PNG Know can you show me any Saheeh and Explicit hadeeth in which the words , " وَهُوَ أَعْلَمُ(he knows best)" were used for the Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) when he asked a question? On the contrary you will find many hadeeth in which Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) asked questions about matters that were unknown to him previously. Now lets look at the following Hadeeth: proof2.PNG This hadith clearly shows that after the telling of the Sahaba Radiallahu Anhum , the Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) recognized her and the proof is " Whom Messenger of Allah knew (فَعَرَفَهَا رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم).Now can you show me any proof where Allah Ta'ala asked a question regarding something and upon receiving an answer , Allah Ta'ala knew( فَعَرَفَهَا اللَّهِ تَعَالَى) or recognized(MazAllah)?Any Quranic verse or explicit hadeeth? Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) I see at the back has i see in the front and your outward sincerity and your inner-sincerity are not conealed from me. This is state of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) all the time and we interpret evidence contrary to it in light of other examples. In this case we interpreted the questioning of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) in light of questioning of Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) and Jibraeel (alayhis salaam). Can you provide proof for your claim that this State is all the time?On the contrary we find the following hadith. Narrated Um Salama: The Prophet heard the voices of some people quarreling near his gate, so he went to them and said, "I am only a human being and litigants with cases of disputes come to me, and maybe one of them presents his case eloquently in a more convincing and impressive way than the other, and I give my verdict in his favor thinking he is truthful. So if I give a Muslim's right to another (by mistake), then that (property) is a piece of Fire, which is up to him to take it or leave it." [Sahih Bukhari Book #89, Hadith#295] Can you please tell me about this fundamental aqeeda which i have highlighted in red?Can you please show me this aqeedah in the books of Aqaid? On the contrary I have quoted the above hadith.

Post: #13 Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) gave interpretation of the verse but did he negate the hearing and seeing type of witnessing? Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) stated people will bear witness in defence of Prophets and he will bare witness upon the people. How does that mean Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) is not hearing seeing type of witness? How does the understanding that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) was sent as a hearing seeing type of witness go against the Tafsir which Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) gave? Comming to the point in which Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) asked the companions who recited the phrase while he was leading the prayers. Does every question indicate that one needs to gain knowledge? When Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) asked Musa (alayhis salaam) what do you have in your hand and he replied a staff. Does that mean Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) didn't know what Musa (alayhis salaam) had in his hand and by asking Musa (alayhis salaam) Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) learnt that it was a staff. Or should we assume that Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) knows everything else but Allah didn't knew Musa (alayhis salaam) was carrying a staff? The hadith of Jibraeel (alayhis salaam), when he came in the form of human and enquired about, Emaan, Ihsan, etc. When Jibraeel (alayhis salaam) left then Prophet told the companions that this was Jibraeel and he came to teach you deen. Point is some time question is not asked to gain knowledge but question is asked for other purposes. In case of Musa (alayhis salaam) it was to make Musa (alayhis salaam) realize what he was carrying. Then he was asked to throw it upon the floor and the staff turned to a snake and left the area. In case of Jibraeel (alayhis salaam) he questioned Prophet (sallallahu aalyhi was'sallam) so the companions can learn about important aspects of deen. In case of Prophet's (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) the question was asked so he steps up and companions recognize him and to tell him the good news how angels responded to his praiseworthy innovation. Imagine this, you live in a village and you perform prayers five times a day. In small village areas people know each other and recognize each other. It would be impossible for Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) not to know and recognize the person and his voice because they live in same city and the companions performed prayers behind Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam). Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) I see at the back has i see in the front and your outward sincerity and your inner-sincerity are not conealed from me. This is state of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) all the time and we interpret evidence contrary to it in light of other examples. In this case we interpreted the questioning of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) in light of questioning of Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) and Jibraeel (alayhis salaam). Let me explain the methodology involved in interpreting, we believe that Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) knows all ghayb and all that is apparent and this is fundamental belief. Therefore any evidence which indicates that Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) did not know something we interpret it to conform to fundamental teaching of aqeedah so it accords the fundamental aqeedah and not refutes it. Similarly the fundamental aqeedah regarding Prophet knowledge is that he sees at the back as he sees at the front and he knows sinerity in the hearts of believers. Now any hadith which contradicts this fundamental aqeedah we interpret it to conform to teaching of Islam. Your methodology is shaytaani methodology because you are attemtping to undermine a fundamental aspect of aqeedah with indirect evidence. Why don't you undermine Allah knowing everything by point of Musa (alayhis salaam) carrying staff in his hand? You will not undermine basic aqeedah of Allah knowing evryhting with Musa (alayhis salaam) example but you are willing to and wanting to undermine the basic/fundamental aqeedah regarding Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) by using his question as example? Foolish people like you who do not know the asool of religion engage in such foolishness. We the Muslims understand that if a verse/hadith goes against fundamental aqeedah we interpret the verse/hadith to conform to fundamental aqeedah. We the Muslims do not refute the fundamental aqeedah as a result of verse/hadith.

Post: #11

Post: #10 Most of the material which you have brought up has been discussed in the following dicussion with a brother. Just visit the thread, and if you have any specific text, hadith, verse which you think is strong proof against Hadhir Nadhir please refer it to me via private message. Note I will not be dealing with copy paste jobs. I know exactly where you copied the English material from and trust me its not very impressive. For sake of your hereafter stop copy pasting material and give the brain a chance to understand the matters your self: http://www.islamimeh...-hadhir-nadhir/ Most of the material which you have copy pasted has been already been discussed in the link.

Please Open Another Tab With Same Thread And On It Click On The Links To View Them While You Read The Discussion. Alternatively Please Click On This Link And It will Take You Direct To The Post Where Images Are Visible; #3, Thank You.

The following discussion took place here: #1 (please click to view the thread). The discussion on Hadhir Nazir (i.e. Shahid/Witnessing) of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) branched into two discussions. The main Urdu discussion was between learned and honourable brother Khalil Rana and our equally learned and honourable brother Saeedi and our Deobandi antagonist, Haq3909. May Allah reward both of them for their effort and elevate their ranks, Ameen, and guide brother Haq3909 to the understanding of Islam, Ameen. The English discussion was between my self and Mr Haq3909. It is essential that some back ground information is provided so readers have a beginning point and clear image from which they can begin with. The objective is not to gloss over my personal faults and highlight Mr Haq3909's faults but merely to represent both understands as neutrally as possible. Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) states that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) has been sent as a Shahid (i.e. Witness or Hadhir & Nazir) and in another verse it states he has been sent as a Shahid upon you (i.e. Muslims/Mankind). The Deobandi's and Wahhabi's believe Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) is not a seeing/hearing type of Shahid. Instead he will bearing witness on the day of judgment on events which he has not seen/heard but has been informed in the Quran by Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) that following things have taken place. On the opposite the Ahle Sunnat Wal Jammat all over the world believe that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) was sent as a Shahid upon us therefore he is hearing/seeing type of witness and he will bear witness to events which he has seen/heard. From this main disagreement other understands branch of but it is not important to point them out because the readers will get to read them as the discussion develops. Here I will be quoting all the material quoted by brother Haq3909 and material which is written by me in response to him. Note at the end of it each post will have a blue number if you click on that it will take you to the original post and you can verify yourself if the material is quoted honestly and truthfully. I would advise the readers to note which out of us two has actually answered the points and who has avoided answering the crucial aspects of the discussion. At the end of dicussion there will be oppurtunity for the readers to question myself and Mr Haq3909. Note I will explicitly state when the dicussion comes to an end so until then avoid commenting. As addition of others commenting will only make the dicussion more complex and difficult for the readers to follow the dicussion. In time of this fitna and lack of knowledge it is important that readers have easy access to knowledge and something easy figure out. Please the end abstain from commenting, thank you. Please Note Where Ever Mr Haq3909 Lacked Decency To Format His Response Appropriately I Would Be Formatting The Response On His Behalf. If I Reference A Post Number Please Note This Number Is Refering The Posts In The Original Thread And Not This Thread. Muhammad Ali Razavi.

Is ko apnay haal par chor denh. Ek banda discuss karta heh toh mukhalifeen kay points ka jawab deta heh. Jab yeh pans jata heh toh chup ho jata heh aur intizar karta heh kay baat thori agay baray ya phir kissi point ko leh kar shoroon ho jata heh. Misaal kay tor par, Musalman hindu say kehta heh yeh idols tumaray khuda kesay hen yeh kuch be nahin kar saktay. Hindu khamosh rahay ... jab kohi likhay idols toh bot hen sab lartay keun nahin apis meh. toh phir wapis aa kar ... sab meh ittifaq heh, agar kohi kahay woh toh lartay thay tumaray mazhab meh yeh daleel heh ... phir chup ... musalman, ganesha insaan kee shakal meh hindu idol heh, hindu wapis aa kar challenge deta hoon sabat kar doh kay insaan thah woh toh elephant sar wala thah body insan ke thee. Apna time waste nah keren in jesay bandoon kay wastay Allah ta'ala nay farmaya thah: "Nor are (alike) the living (i.e. the believers) and the dead (i.e. the disbelievers). Verily, Allah makes whom He wills to hear, but you cannot make hear those who are in graves." Yehni Kufr par in kee maut heh. Is ka aur is kay uqabir ka ek hee asool thah aur abh bee heh ke jab Islam aur Kufr meh choose karna paray aur masla izzat ka ho toh Islam say Kufr behtr heh. Izzat bachay apnay Islam ko bacha kar kia milna heh. yeh heh in ka aur in kay uqabir ka asool. Sab nay izzat bachahi apnay Islam ko kissi ko bachanay kee tofeeq nah huwi saray Kafir maray aur yeh be uneeh kay tareek par heh.

Abh kush hen kuen kay aap nay apna damagh istimal karna shoroon ker deeya heh. Wesay aap ko kush hona chahyeh thah kay aap nay khud likha heh. but we are happy on your behalf. Lol!

Allahu Akbar! Allah ta'ala aap ko jaza e khair deh, ameen.

Salam alayqum, Hazrat yeh sahib CopyPaste wali sarkar hen, jab CopyPaste khatam toh yeh summun buqmun ho jahayn gay balkay ab ho chukay hen. Agar jawab deeya toh kissi aur kay qanday par rakh ker thop chalay gee. Jab inoon nay kuch likha toh meh aap ko jahan say yeh COPYPASTE keren gay woh aap ko website bata doon ga.

Reading, makes you qualified to discuss with me? You can/t even read properly you dont know how to read properly. You couldnt wouldnt undrstand the chaper on Raf ul Yadain in Jaa Al Haq. Reading is not key, interpreting is the key to properly understanding a book. Lastly the sunnis present scanned pages, books are referenced, thats not plagiarism, there is diffrence between plagiarism and pasting scanned pages. Which Sunni here quoted a books scanned page and you or I or anyone else thought he wrote it. By copy pasting word for wrod fullstop to full stop without even declaring whre you got the material from is plagiarism, thats literary theft. People like you always existed and in Kashf ul Majood, Hazrat Data Ali Hujweri rahimullah wrote someone stole his book material and publshed it as his own. Atleast put quotation marks to indicate you are quoting someone else and material wasnt written by you. Keep saying to me that i am confused about my aqeedah it prolly makes you feel better. In sha allah the astronomical size of lack of comprehension and stupidity of yours will be established in the response. The reason on which you are saying i dont know my aqeedah and i am confused. That place will establish that you are STUPID AND DONT KNOW HOW TO READ a book or interpret the content in light of evidences. You are telling me my aqeedah is not supported by Sunni's, foolish kid you have no sense.

Chor denh is ko, is dafa maaf ker denh is ko luzoom aur iltizam meh farq nahin pata. Balkay is ka matlab toh Haq Nawaz Jhangvi ko be nahin thah woh be Mualana Ashraf Ali Sehalvi (rahimullah) say munazray meh iltizam e kufr kee daleel mang raha tha luzoom e kufr kee nahin. Hazrat nay ek doh dafa samjaya kay luzoom yeh heh iltizam yeh heh ... phir kehnay laga mujjay bataho luzoom kis ko kehtay hen iltizam kia cheez heh ... war palat ker kernay laga halan kay ussay luzoom aur iltizam ka farq be nah pata thah. Is nay maan leeya heh Urdu achi tera nahin aati is leyeh is ko chor denh. Wesay mujjay yeh be is kee chaal lagti heh keun kay yeh phr behas kesay jari rakh sakhta heh. Abh is nay kehna heh Urdu nahin aati jab pans gaya toh aur behas phir be jari rakhay ga.

There is harm, its a discussion between two people, and your contribution is zero. The harm is that if you havent written the material you will not understand the connecting issues to it. Which in other words means you are a idiot who cannot see fault because you do not have required knowledge to realize your mistake. I really don't need you to copy paste anything, i know exactly where you copy paste from. Discussion will be benefitial for me is when you come with something original. If you are copy pasting what I heard and what i know inside out and out side in its hardly a dicusion. Its like a professional wrestler wrestling with a amature. I dislike CopyPasters cause you are not engaged in discussion rather you are copy pasting others material without even giving credit to where you got it from. This is called plagiarism and its shameless act. Imagine you are debating me and each time you finsih i play a clip. Is that a debate between you and me or u or the video clips. If I need to debate other peoples material I dont need you in the middle, I will do it myself in my own time and i know exactly where to find the material without your help. YOU NEED TO CONTRIBUTE try writing what you read in your own words. Asking you to interpret the Quran and Sunnah would be too much atleast write up the material you read in your own words to make it feel like i am discussing with someone who knows. As a CopyPaster you will not gain anything. You will always be a COPYPASTE, have you ever wondered why in schools never except COPYPASTE from net or books? Because copypasters learn nothing, by writting in your own words you will internalize the material and develop better understanding of issue and evidences.

Salam alayqum, Baee aap nay Sunniyoon kee baat kee meh aap ko Deobandiyoon kee bata hoon. Mujjay ek banda milla takeaway par joh parshani meh thah meh nay ussay saath leeya gar aya. Uss ke parshani maloom huwi toh dostoon ko saath leh ker haal kay leyh nikla keun kay jis jaga par woh kam karta thah us ka malik us ko tankhawa nahin deh raha thah teen char maheenoon kee tankhawa us nay daba kar rakhi thee. Ham nay ussay ja kar daraya dabkaya aur kaha ham police ko report keren gay kay tum illegally workers kam par lagatay ho. Jis ka fine 18 hazar pound fee banda heh. Us nay 350 pound deeya baqi baad meh denay ka kaha. Batoon batoon meh ussay maloom huwa kay meh Sunni hoon, dari meh say Wahhabi hee lagta hoon. Us nay sawal poocha Geeyarweenh kia heh. Meh nay ussay bataya kay ek dafa Darood ek dafa Surah Fatihah aur aakhir meh ek dafa phir Darood paren. Us nay para meh nay dua mangi isaal e sawab keeya ameen. phir bataya yeh geerwarweenh heh. Phir us nay bataya kay mehDeobandi hoon mujjay nahin pata thah essay geeywarweenh kehtay hen aur yeh amal hota heh girwarweenh meh. Us nay kaha yeh toh kohi larahi wali baat nahin ham toh phir wesay lartay rahay. Phir us nay poocha aap Sunniyoon aur ham meh kia farq heh, meh nay bunyadi farq bataya aqahid aur fiqhi masail ka aur saath Thanvi wali ibarat suna deeh kay aap kay ek maulvi nay yeh likha heh. Allah rabbil alameen gawah heh, kay us kay ankhoon say ansoon jari ho gahay, keun kay woh meray saath khana kha raha thah meh dekh raha thah kay us kay haath kamp rahay thay. Us nay kaha yeh banda Kafir heh kohi musalman nahin esa likh sakta, meh nay bataya yeh aap kay Thanvi sahib ki ibarat heh us nay kaha agar heh toh meh Deobandiyat say tayb ho jahoon ga. Meh nay ussay ibarat dekha dee us nay kasam deh dee kay aaj kay bad meh deobandi nahin hoon meh Sunni hota hoon. Aur al hamdu lillah woh abh Sunni heh aur mera dost heh. Meh nay us say poocha yaar tumaray zehn meh kohi taweel nahin aahi kay shahid is mafoom meh likha ho ya us meh, us nay kaha kohi pagal banda is say kohi aur mafoom doonday ga yeh wazia tor par gustakhi heh. Hasil yeh kay jin bandoon kay dil kufr say kalay nahin huway woh in ibarat meh kufriat pa letay hen magar joh Deobandi kartootoon kee waja say darja kufr par pounchtay hen aur dil kalay ho jatay hen woh kufr kee daldal meh esa panstay hen kay nikalnay ka kohi tareeka nahin hota.

No Mr CopyPaste I am not on about Ahadith/Verses, you copy pasted atleast 50% of material from various Deobandi/Wahhabi websites, word by word, coma by coma, fullstop by fulstop. We ill see what supports me who supports my aqeedah.

Agar yeh meri bukhlahat heh toh tum is kush fehmi meh mat rehna. Bachoon ko zeb nahin deta kay woh baroon kee tera bateh keren. Apni oqat banday ko boolni nahin chahyeh. in sha allah joh response a raha he us meh tummeh joh tumari ilmi oqat be yaad ahay gee aur jin say tum nay copy paste keeya un kee oqaat kee. Bat chand dinoon kee heh. Jin ko tum nay apnay mazhab kay dalahil bana ker pesh keeya thah un say he meh Hazir Nazir sabat keroon ga. Keun kay, bina ishq kay joh partay hen bukhari, ata heh bukhar un ko ati nahin bukhari,

Abu Hajira Sahib nay ban kis ko keeya thah jab bardasht nah ho sakka toh ban ker deeya. Thanvi kay mureed ka kalma pernay per jab lachar huwa toh ban ker deeya. Meray pass abhi be Abu Hajirah ko jawab Tazhir Un Naas ka likha thah mojood heh aur 34 pages thah magar ban ho janay kee waja say paste nah ker sakka aur doh dahee maheenay pehlay mera harddrive kharab ho janay kee waja say sab kuch waste ho gaya, jis ka zikr is thread ki post 2 kay aakhir meh keeya thah: http://www.islamimehfil.com/topic/21844-hazrat-ameer-mawaiya-radi-allahu-tala-anhu-cursed-ali-radi-allahu-tala-anhu/ Joh meh nay Tahzir Un Naas say pesh keeya thah us ka toh woh jawab nah deh sakka. Balkay ibaraat par baat nah bani aur toh baat ka rukh dosri taraf pher deeya kay Ala Hazrat nay qat chat kee heh jis ka jawab meh likh raha thah ... magar Ahlalhdeeth.org forum per mera material jis meh Deobandiyoon ko neo-Qadiyani likha thah parh ker inoon nay mujjay banned ker deeya: http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?67509-Some-issues-with-Husaam-al-haramayn-and-Original-Texts-of-Deobandi-Kutubs/page12 Link par post #117 dekh lenh. Then when he and your companions had no response on Thanvi's Kalmah they made excuse o he abuse mother and sister of so and so there three month ban on him. In reality the statement was something like this; if a deobandi engages in zina or some deobandi's mother or sister is caught committing zina will you make excuse o she was out of control and she had no control over the body. Would this be valid excuse like you are making excuse for the Kufr of Thanvi and his mureed. For establishing a point to refute a kufr, they banned me. Thanvi walay point par akhar meh yahi hona thah joh is thread meh aap kay Deobandi ka faisla tha: http://www.islamimehfil.com/topic/8687-mureed-ka-thanvi-sahab-ka-kalma-aur-darood-parhna/page-3 Abu Hajira say Thanvi kay Kalmay per jaho taweel leh aho meh jawab likhoon ga. Link uper heh ussay doh aur kaho jawab deh. Tummeh pata lag jahay ga kay chawal bandoon nay mujjay banned keun keeya thah. Bicharay maulvi ko pata lag gaya thah kay agay kia honay wala heh is leyeh safety first, banned. I know maulvi's very well, you sing their praises I know what maulvi's are like especially deobandi and Wahhab ones. Your policy is damage control, even if you have to lie. I had invited abu Hajira on Ahlalhdeeth.org to complete the debate with me. If I remember correctly i think i posted the response on ahlalhdeeth.prg and sent link to Maulvi Abu Hajira and I have not recieved response yet. They were glad for banning me cause they had no choice other than that Anwar Shah kashmiri's scanned pages were enough to shock the system. Asaan tareekay say jaan churwanay ka tareeka thah kay mujjay ban keeya jahay aur jaan churwa leeh esa ker kay. Islam par qaim rahoon toh woh zillat behtr joh us kee waja say millay aur kufr par hoon toh us izzat par lakh lanat. Kafir ko kufr meh kia nazar ata heh, Kufr Islam nazar ata heh, Islam kufr nazar ati heh. Joh izzat tum ussay kufr kee tableegh par doh woh tummeh aur ussay mubarak. Agar Urdu nahin aati toh likh doh kay nahin aati mujjay Urdu jawab denay say qasir hoon is waja say kuen apnay aap ko gaseet rahay ho. Yeh likhnay say tummeh pehlay maut parti thee. Joh bar bar tum say sawal kar rahay hen jawab doh jawab doh jawab doh aur bajahay kehnay kay mujjay Urdu achi tera perna likhna nahin aati is leyeh jawab nahin deh sakta wesay keun baat ko tool deh rahay ho. Jis cheez ka nahin pata banda likh day kay mujjay pata nahin, ya yeh waja heh is leyeh jawab nahin deh sakta. Jab tummeh Urdu nahin aati toh maghz mari ka kia faida bataho in ko taqay un ka time waste nah ho. Tummeh kia pata likh likhaee meh kitna time lagta heh tum nay toh sirf copy paste marna hota heh idhar say nahin toh udhar say copy paste mar loh gay. Shahid soch rahay ho kay kissi aur ko pata nahin lagay ga aur meh puray kay puray saffay copy past mar kay apnay number bana loon ga. Abhi ek doh post exchanges meh copy paste material khatam ho jahay ga phir Seikh Google Yahoo al madad bee kaam nahin ahay ga.

Bura ronay say behtr heh chup ker jaho agar kuch nahin ata toh. Bas ho gaya uqabir ka difa aur tum nay Shaheedoon kee list meh naam abh darj kerwa leeya heh is leyeh khamoshi behtr heh. Agar kuch ata heh toh moteram Saeedi aur moteram Khalil Rana Sahib kee posts ka jawab doh. Warna chup ker jaho, tumaray say ziyada paray likhay aur qabil banday yahan per apni mitti paleed kerwa ker baag chukay hen. Abh hamara tumaray rad meh kuch likhna esa heh jesay murday aur zinda meh larahi ho aur ham murdeh ko latenh maren, utho laro laro ... Abh muj sharmingi aur tars a raha heh tumari lachari dekh ker. Babu baroon kee bat maan loh aur chup ho jaho. Tumaray bass kee baat nahin, izzat kee khamoshi ya zillat kee chavlen, agay tumari marzi heh.

Salam alayqum, Baee aap nay acha aur hunda jawab likha. Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) aap ko jaza e khair deh, ameen.

Salam alayqum Mughal baee yeh toh 2 bahiyoon ka zikr heh tesray ka zikr kahan heh jis nay kaha meh Nabi peda ho gaya hoon. Ek nay kaha Allah peda ker sakta heh, dosra nay kaha peda ho toh farq nahin parta, aur tesray nay kaha meh ba-hasiyat e nabi peda huwa hoon aur farq nahin para. Tesray ka dawa be add ker denh. Poori story achi lagti heh agar adi miss ho toh phir maza nahin. Aap nay sari story likh deeh magar aap nay story kee ending nahin batahi. Woh be poster meh bata dnh.

I Am Writting Reponse It Will Take Atleast A Week To Fully Complete And I Suspect It Will Be 30 Plus A4 pages. I apologise for this news, but my response just has reached 30 A4 pages and I am not even half way through completing my response therefore I revise my original estimate and say 50 A4 pages.

Salam alayqum, Jee baee ek do din denh meh thora farigh ho ker aap ko tafseelan jawab likhoon ga dalahil kay saath.

Why did Allah forbid the companions saying from raina did there minds ever concieved that? Which companion protested. O Allah my mind never ever ever never, never never never ever never not even ever ever ever nerver concieved that i am calling Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) a raina to insult him then o Allah the knower of what is in hearts and minds and all that is ghayb why did you prohibit me from using raina. If you are a Muslim and if you use a word, phrase, sentence which could be miscontrued by people to insult Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) and which does insult Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) then we the Muslims will inform you of it even though your mind did not percieve the insult and even though if you did not comprehend the insult. It is upon Ahlul Ilm and ahlul emaan ahlul sunnah to educate the ones who don't know. Adab and respect and love of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) was never the forte of your sect. Soon as we quote you what your ancestors wrote to insult Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) deliberately and knowingly the whole drama of o we Deobandis love and respect Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) falls apart because then you start to defend those who insulted Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam). How sincere were the Khawarij Prophet said o my companions you would be ashamed of your prayers and fasting compared to Khawarij. O their tears, how beautifully they invoked Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) and how they cried while reciting the Quran. You and I compare nothing to them yet the reality of these people is out of Islam like an arrow leaves a target with a little sign of Islam on them. Have you ever wondered that they will be so practicing and sincere yet Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) said they will have little speck of sign of Islam on them? If a none Khariji did that he is would be counted amongst the pious but they barely had mark of Islam upon them after doing all that? They have what they have but they go out of Islam over other things which nullified their Islam. Your tears, prayers, Shahadah, fasting, and the love which you claim to have and the tears you claim to have shed all will be worthless because you are spokes-person and defender of the Kuffaar who insulted RasoolAllah (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) and you are promoting these insulting books and statments as if they are according to Islam. This will nullify your good deeds and by Allah if you do not repent hell will be your dewelling place. You have made your good deeds worthless by your worse deeds because Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) is reported to have said good deeds biddati are not accepted until he leaves his innovation. You are from the ahlul bidda and from ahlul kufr. [Note I classify bidda into Kufr and Shirk and Zalalah. My definition of Bidda is different from 'BARELWI' definition. I got brave came up with my own version of Bidda defintion.] So don't delude your self as the Khawarij deluded themselves with acts of piety and charity and worship focus on correcting your Aqeedah. Without correct aqeedah your entire actions will be rejected.

Shahzad baee ko is leyeh nahin kaha keun kay woh mozoo kay mutabiq aur us ka ek pehloo heh. ma fawk al asbab aur ma taht al asbab ka joh ham biyan ker rahay hen us say kia talluq? Udhar tum meray threads ko apni na-paak posts say paleed ker rahay ho. Woh likho jis ka talluq mozoo say ho aur joh baat chal rahi heh. Baat ka moqa aur munasbat hota heh. Agar doh banday computer technology per bat kar rahay hoon toh tum darmiyan meh apni Tawheed ka biyaan shoroon ker do gay? Agar karo gay toh tameez walay hogay ya bey-tameez? Banday yahi kahen gay kay is ko tameez nahin kay kon si bat kab kerni chahyeh. Joh ham raag ga rahay hen us say tumari baat ka kia talluq? Dar asal tumari ghalti nahin yeh tumari Deobandi/Wahhabiat kee fasadi mentality heh. Jahan par aman ho fasad ikhtilaf ka beej tum logoon nay bona heh. Kohi na kohi atkala tum logoon nay chorna heh jis say harmony meh darrar peray. Ikhtilaf ho behas ho fasad ho larahi jagray hoon. Yeh sirf forums per hee nahin pooray Pakistan meh esa ho raha heh. Jahan per aman heh wahan per Deobandi aa ker mushrik kafir biddati qabar parast ka bazar garam ker detay hen aur phir joh community meh harmony hoti heh kharab hoti heh. Yeh tumari nasal kee pehchaan heh aur meh achi tera janta hoon. Sirf tum mujjay nahin jantay meh kia thah aur hoon. Joh tum likhtay ho tumari nazr ussee taq paunchti heh meri tumari damagh meh joh sochen theen un taq be paunch jaati heh jis waqt tum line likh rahay thay. Mujjay sirf Sunni achay lagtay hen aur meh toh kissi Wahhabi ya deobandi kee talawat e Quran bi nahin sunta sirf is leyeh kay meray dil meh tum logoon kay leyeh narmi peda na ho jahay. Joh Allah kay Nabi (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) kay saath hen woh ashida alal kuffaar hen aur meh yeh shiddat musalman ka zewar aur Kafir ka haq heh. Musalman ko is zewar ko pehna chahyeh aur Kafir ko joh us ka haq heh dena chahyeh. Is leyeh aap ka joh haq heh woh aap ko deeya jata heh aur yeh aap ko bar dasht kernay paray ga aur sabr kerna paray ga. Meri aap say kohi zaati mukhalfat nahin na jageer par jagra sirf Allah kay wastay aur us kay deen kay khilaf joh aap kay nazriat hen us waja say aap kee mukhalfat aur aap kay kufr e sari ki waja say aap say shiddat. Agar aap kufriat ka difa choren aur kufr ko kufr tasleem lenh chahay Kafiroon kee takfir nah keren. Meh aap kay saath musalmanoon wala salook apnahoon ga. Magar jab aap wazia tor per kufriat e Thanvi, Gangohi, Nanotavi aur Ismail Dehalvi, Khalil Ambethvi, Maulvi Hussain Ali kay difa per tiyar hen toh ham Musalmanoon say yeh tawaqoh mat rakhen khaas kar kay muj say kay aap kay saath narmi say pesh ahoon ga. Agar aap samajtay hen kay ham aap kay nazriyat ko ignore ker kay aap ko Musalmanoon kee tera treat keren gay toh aap ko ghalt fehmi heh. Yeh esay hoga ham Qadiyaniyoon kay kufriat ko ignore ker kay un ko Musalman samjen aur musalmanoon wala salook rakhen. Essa nahin ho sakta is leyeh aap ko bar-dasht kerna paray ga meray aur hamaray bughz ko. Allah ka deen seekhnay kay leyeh Sahabah nay bot ziyadtiyan bardasht keen aap sirf jis bughz kay mustahaq hen sirf woh bardasht ker lenh. Aap kia samajtay hen kay Muslaman ko gustakh e RasoolAllah (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) aur us kay difa kernay waloon say bughz nahin hoga? Har Musalman ko esoon say bughz heh aur agar aap musalman hen toh kia aap ko be heh? Agar esa hota toh Thanvi mardood aur Dehalvi mardood ka difa keun kertay?